How can it be that a hub and tire can fly off trailer?

[rothfm]

Seems that little fold-over "tang" style retainer, or cotter pin/Castle nut cover is just rediculous. Someone correct me if I'm wrong please.

1st Been boating and trailering for 25 years. Have kept my gear in top notch shape. In fact I spend more time every spring/fall in my trailer than my boat! Replace everything every couple years tires included. All new.

However I now Slip my boat partially because of 2 seperate episodes over the last few years. Near disasters with the entire wheel and hub leaving the trailer at highway speed, bouncing over cars behind me.

1st Trailer had the captive castle nut cover with cotter style pin. I just took apart my current Venture 9300 LB Tandem form normal maintenance, and it baffles me how these can possibly stay on, if there was a bearing failure.

If the bearing tears up, and the race comes outward, spinning against any of that front hardware ( captive castle cover, cotter pin, Tang", The nut will eventually turn free, or just get ground down until the wheel and hub can freely come off.

Right??

I just finished checking and repacking my big Venture, and Dam, those little fold-Over "Tangs" are the only thing holding the wheel on.

This has happened twice and and I'm obsessed with proper maintenance, and checking digilently. But holy cow, I'm looking at this setup, not much to hold anything together if they bearings tear up. Seems like such crappy designs.

Decided, amoung other reasons too, to slip my boat finally and love it. Just need 1 trip home soon with the trailer.

Maybe I'm seeing this wrong? Thoughts?


Thanks

 

[Chris1956]

There is usually a large washer under the nut. That presses the outer cone bearing into place. As long as the bearing does not fail, that is enough to hold it.

If the bearing does fail, The hub can become loose on the spindle, however, most bearing/hub designs I have seen have different size bearings, at least one of which should keep the hub on the spindle, long enough for you to feel the issue and stop.

 

[robert graham]

Maybe you're over-tightening the castle nut on the bearings?....a little bit of wheel play after bearings are seated is fine. Also a good idea to jack up trailer and spin each wheel to listen and feel for broken or pitted bearings.....

 

[ahicks]

One thing for sure. SOMETHING is wrong! That same design is used on most cars and pick ups....

 

[JimS123]

They fail because:

* the cotter pin was omitted
* the bearings were not packed well with grease
* the bearings were so rusty that the heat caused the spindle to "melt" and come off the axle.
* the castle nut was omitted
* the bearings were not properly seated with the castle nut
* the driver was driving too freaking fast

Personally, I read the instruction manual and never had a problem. But a few years ago we were on the interstate on vacation and a truck and boat trailer passed us by at about 75 (in a 65 zone). I saw his hub was red and the wheel was wobbling. I immediately slowed to about 50 and put on the flashers. Up ahead I saw his tire and wheel fly into the air and hit the windshield of a car he was passing. When I passed him on the shoulder his spindle was gone, the trailer frame was on the ground, and he was looking at it scratching his head.

Of course I yelled ******* as I passed him.

If it is a continuing problem, have an expert show you what to do.

 

[rothfm]

Negative...Been hand packing and seating these since I was a kid...Now 60. Failures are going to happen. I see trailers minus tires in the breakdown lane just about every time I go out on the highway.

Ive had very little failures of any kind due to the dilligence. Knock on wood.

What I'm saying.... if there is a catastrophic failure, there sure aint much holding anything together.

I've had exact manufacturer hardware in place, by the book-all washers, OEM kits, original parts.....and we all know if they tear up, it can leave the trailer. Yes, I've Seated correctly and then backed off...all proper procedures.

Just taking a long vent, I guess...as I just did my twice-per season look at my Venture 9300...and I just shake my head when I see that little "tank" holding everything back.

Glad I'm off the highway now in a slip.

 

[rothfm]

last thought...I can deal with (and have had my share) of flats, bunks breaking, springs broken etc, etc...Like everyone else. But I just cant understand why this scenerio is even possible in 2020. A entire hub/wheel can go bounding down the highway. Not much fail-safe by design.

One was just on the news in the Boston area...Not me thank god. Whent into someones car.

Glad I'm in a slip now is all

 

[roscoe]

But I just cant understand why this scenerio is even possible in 2020. Not much fail-safe by design.

Well, I guess the world is waiting for you to design a better and fail-safe design.

It should make you a mega millionaire.

And insurance companies will give drivers a discount if they have them installed, just like they did with air bags.

 

[Grub54891]

Never had an issue myself. Maby drill the nut and install a set screw? I'm not but just an idea. You'll make millions. Lol

 

[ahicks]

Counterpoint - been pulling trailers, including those with tiny tires, at freeway speeds up to 80mph or so (any speed I feel like), for over 50 years now. I've NEVER had a bearing or tire related failure - and I don't consider myself anal regarding maintenance.

One thing I do make a practice of, out of habit and sheer caution, is to put my hand/fingers on the tires and bearing hubs every time I stop for a break or for fuel.

 

[dingbat]

You could always weld the nut on....your catastrophic failure was not caused by the tang or the nut coming off. Both are down stream events triggered by a bearing failure.

Plain and simple, most failures come back to installation and or maintenance issues. Bearing installation is simple enough that pretty much any Tom, **** and Harry can replace one, but to install a bearing “by the book“ requires tools and knowledge most don’t have.

Things like end play, run out, and eccentricity all need to be evaluated and addressed each time the hub is removed.

Seals and bearing cups should be pressed, not beat into place.

End play needs to be measured and adjusted to mfg. specifications upon installation of new bearing and a subsequent inspection after your first outing.

Shaft runout and hub eccentricity needs to be evaluated. Fought a seal issue for two years because of the eccentricity of a hub right out of the box.

The biggest killer of bearings is moisture intrusion. A good quality, properly installed rear seal is paramount. Biggest seal killers...excessive shaft run out, hub eccentricity and over pressuring the grease cavity.

Most “grease rated” shaft seals are rated to 3 to 4 psi. Some “oil rated” shaft seals are rated upwards of 6 psi.

 

[The Force power]

Counterpoint - been pulling trailers, including those with tiny tires, at freeway speeds up to 80mph or so (any speed I feel like), for over 50 years now. I've NEVER had a bearing or tire related failure - and I don't consider myself anal regarding maintenance.

One thing I do make a practice of, out of habit and sheer caution, is to put my hand/fingers on the tires and bearing hubs every time I stop for a break or for fuel.

Exactly!! Proper maintenance & common sense is all you need to apply.
Funny that you mentioned the part where you touch the hubs to feel for a "hot hub" I do that too every time! lol

 

[The Force power]

Things like end play, run out, and eccentricity all need to be evaluated and addressed each time the hub is removed.

Seals and bearing cups should be pressed, not beat into place.

End play needs to be measured and adjusted to mfg. specifications upon installation of new bearing and a subsequent inspection after your first outing.

Shaft runout and hub eccentricity needs to be evaluated. Fought a seal issue for two years because of the eccentricity of a hub right out of the box.

The biggest killer of bearings is moisture intrusion. A good quality, properly installed rear seal is paramount. Biggest seal killers...excessive shaft run out, hub eccentricity and over pressuring the grease cavity.

Most “grease rated” shaft seals are rated to 3 to 4 psi. Some “oil rated” shaft seals are rated upwards of 6 psi.

Wow!! Did you work at trailer repair shop? such as the big semis? ( I do ) because everything you just said is true!

The only thing I could add to this, is that some axles Where oil-seals up to 6 psi are being used in are equipped with a check-valve that opens when the max pressure is exceeded to "save" the seal

 

[Scott Danforth]

when the red light is on.....something is wrong

 

[JimS123]

last thought...I can deal with (and have had my share) of flats, bunks breaking, springs broken etc, etc...Like everyone else. But I just cant understand why this scenerio is even possible in 2020. A entire hub/wheel can go bounding down the highway. Not much fail-safe by design.

One was just on the news in the Boston area...Not me thank god. Whent into someones car.

Glad I'm in a slip now is all

Bunks breaking, springs broken, wheels flying into the air....OMG.

In 52 years of pulling trailers I've had exactly one single flat tire, and that was due to a road hazard that was beyond my control.

You must drive a gazillion more miles than I do, or there is a fundamental problem here, or I'm not like everyone else.

 

[The Force power]

when the red light is on.....something is wrong

Nice weld job after it cooled off; she ain't coming off! lol

 

[dingbat]

Wow!! Did you work at trailer repair shop? such as the big semis? ( I do ) because everything you just said is true!

40+ years building, designing and selling industrial automation equipment for the steel, aluminum and paper industries.

Spent 20 years as the Mechanical Design Manager. All custom built to suit. Lots and lots of electric motor, pneumatic and hydraulic drive control experience.

Knew the bearing and seal catalogs like the back of my hand.

 

[poconojoe]

I also do the feel the hub for heat when stopping. Simple, quick, easy, no tools needed way to know if something is not right. Of course, it should be checked after a short trip, not after 6 hours of travel. I guess you could get one of those heat detecting pointing tools to get an exact reading.

 

[russell_peters]

Ignore this. I am a spammer. I am banned for life.

Edited by GA-Boater

 

[bigdee]

Incorrect end play is a major factor. Simply put, loose is better. You should be able to feel movement when you try to try to rock the wheel back and forth. Castle nut and cotter pin position can be frustrating when you turn one notch back from zero play and you feel like ther is too much end play....STOP, that end play won't cause a problem even if it is slightly out of spec.