Here's a tip for you--Don't leave a small tip

[wilkin250r]

Re: Here's a tip for you--Don't leave a small tip

The aspect of tipping is often controversial, as we have seen here.<br /><br />Society has certain rules, some of them set in stone (like laws), but also some of them unwritten. And those rules of society change over time. Tipping is one of those unwritten rules. Society says that if somebody serves you, you tip them. I kind of like the arrangement, because I get to decide how much to pay them. Things could just as easily go the other way. Rather than $24 for your steak dinner, you could be paying $31, and the restaraunt will pay the waiter $12.50 per hour instead of $5.15 to make up the difference. But at that point, you have no forum for bad service. Good service, bad service, you still pay the same amount.<br /><br />Personally, I like having that control. I am paying seperately for food and service. I cannot control the costs of the food, but I am in control of the costs of the service, I get to choose how much I want to pay. If the service isn't worth much, I don't pay much. It keeps the servers honest, and improves the overall service.<br /><br />Restaurants aren't lucrative businesses. It's very unlikely you will get rich owning a restaurant. They're not making tons of money. As it is, WE (the customers) are paying the waitstaff through tips. If we require the restaurant to pay the waitstaff, one of two things happens. Either prices go up, and we lose our voice and feedback to affect the service, or you get service that's only worth $5.15 per hour. Ask that poor kid at Wal-Mart a technical question, and you'll get a very confused kid, he doesn't have the answer. He's minimum wage, and worth every penny. Do we really want service that's only worth $5.15 per hour?

 

[PatPatterson]

Re: Here's a tip for you--Don't leave a small tip

Tipping has become an "unwritten rule", and because of that, the purpose of tipping has been lost. I tip because I recieve good or outstanding service. If I don't recieve good service, there is no rule, written or unwritten, that requires me to pay as if I had. There are many people making a living as wait staff. They are the people who have figured out that people will tip, if they are given good or outstanding service. Young people trying to "make a few bucks" will figure that out, or they will make very few bucks indeed. <br /><br />Servers are not entitled to tips, just because they are a server. A good server will earn their tips.

 

[ob]

Re: Here's a tip for you--Don't leave a small tip

All I ever need is my drink refilled.And please,bring butter with the rolls and place what steak sauce you have on the table.Don't ask me how my 3/4 eaten steak is while I'm chewing and leave me be while I eat and I'll leave a decent tip.I came to eat ....not have my *** kissed.

 

[wilkin250r]

Re: Here's a tip for you--Don't leave a small tip

Originally posted by Capt. Kidd:<br />Servers are not entitled to tips, just because they are a server. A good server will earn their tips.

I agree and disagree. Society has changed in such a way that you are paying seperately for food and service. I realize the history of tipping, that it was originally for going that extra mile, a bonus. Unfortunately, that's simply not true anymore. The act of tipping has evolved. You pay for the food via the check, and you pay for the service via the tip.<br /><br />As such, I believe that servers are entitled to something. I have seen very few servers that are only worth $5.15 per hour. Now, that doesn't always mean they are worth the full 15% of the check. Sometimes it's only 10%, or even 5%.

 

[SpinnerBait_Nut]

Re: Here's a tip for you--Don't leave a small tip

Originally posted by mattttt25:<br /> "a real job". nice sbn, real nice.<br /><br />i pray you have a daughter or granddaughter one day that tries to earn a few extra bucks for school waiting tables.<br /><br />too bad everyone can't get "real jobs" like i'm sure you have in the sticks of kentucky.

mattttt25, I own my own business and so do my 3 daughters, so no we don't have to worry about slinging crap in a diner somewhere.<br /><br />And yes, there are "real" jobs here in the sticks.<br /><br />You go in and after you have been waited on, your "server" goes over to their little table in the corner and has a break and don't come back around to see if you need anything.<br /><br />Yea, they get a tip, yea right. <br /><br />I like the couple places we have here where you can go in and get a good home cooked meal, not one of these, throw it in the wave and warm it up kind of meals, and they don't look for no tips, they are just glad you are there.<br /><br />Them places are all but gone nowadays.<br />I'm glad I have a wife that knows how to cook.

 

[Barlow]

Re: Here's a tip for you--Don't leave a small tip

having the restaurant add the tip usually screws the waitstaff in the long run anyways. I figure they've already added it so why worry about it.<br /><br />If you can't afford to go out w/o worrying about it - stay home.<br />Simple economics.<br /><br />agree with you on the ability thing and food quality SBN ... only a few places I truely enjoy eating at here as well.

 

[SpinnerBait_Nut]

Re: Here's a tip for you--Don't leave a small tip

Originally posted by Barlow:<br /> having the restaurant add the tip usually screws the waitstaff in the long run anyways. I figure they've already added it so why worry about it.<br /><br />If you can't afford to go out w/o worrying about it - stay home.<br />Simple economics.<br /><br />agree with you on the ability thing and food quality SBN ... only a few places I truely enjoy eating at here as well.

That's right and I don't.<br />When I go out, which is rare, I go to eat and not worry about anything else.<br /><br />The places I go to, I pay up front and go to enjoy my meal and go home.

 

[PatPatterson]

Re: Here's a tip for you--Don't leave a small tip

Originally posted by wilkin250r:<br /> .....you are paying seperately for food and service.........You pay for the food via the check, and you pay for the service via the tip..... As such, I believe that servers are entitled to something.

I couldn't agree more. The problem is, if I pay for service seperately, why should I pay for bad service. If they want a tip, they should earn it. They are not entitled to my gratuity. They are entitled to the $2.75 per hour they agreed to work for (plus tips) if they can't provide good service. The tips are for good service.

 

[mattttt25]

Re: Here's a tip for you--Don't leave a small tip

sbn- i won't even bother to argue with you. your attitude blows me away. i'm glad you've worked so hard that you don't have to sling crap in a diner. would love to hear how you and your daughters' businesses are so much more important to society than someone that works in a restaurant.<br /><br />wilken- great post. you explain the issue well. too bad no one picked up on anything you said and simply sticks to the "if i don't like the service, i ain't gonna pay" attitude.<br /><br />i will disagree with you at a point. my wife is a waitress. she's a graduate of san diego state and a full time mom, and she enjoys earning a few bucks in the evenings. she works at a very exclusive waterfront restaurant here in annapolis. to get the job, she worked for two weeks with no pay, training, studying, and taking tests. she needs to show up early, wear dress slacks and a tie, work the floor for 4 hours, clean up and go home. she's not slinging crap in a diner.<br /><br />some nights, she does very well, and is compensated for her efforts. other nights, she gets screwed for no reason, with people leaving 5% or less. that is not right.<br /><br />she also worked restaurants in california, where she was paid $2.15 per hour. that money simply went to taxes. the only money she received for that work was tips. as a student at the time, it killed her when people did not tip or tip well.<br /><br />it may not be the best system, but it's what we have. the restaurants should pay more and then tipping could be what it was probably meant to be. but that's not life. i just iwsh everyone remembered that going to a restaurant is a luxury, not a right. those people serving you are not slaves. again, if you can't afford to tip 15% or more, stay home.

 

[lakelover]

Re: Here's a tip for you--Don't leave a small tip

Update...charges were dropped. It was ruled that establishments can't compel customers to tip.<br /><br />Apparently newspaper over-wrote the story, the link above shows the update.

 

[brother chris]

Re: Here's a tip for you--Don't leave a small tip

Now that is good news!. <br />No-one should be FORCED to pay a tip, anywhere at anytime.

 

[wilkin250r]

Re: Here's a tip for you--Don't leave a small tip

I certainly agree with the ruling. Restaurants cannot force their customers to tip the waitstaff. Me personally, when I was waiting tables, I NEVER added the tip to the check for large parties (I had the option) because I was confident in the service I had given, and I was rewarded for it. Rather than the standard 15%-18%, I usually recieved 20% or more.<br /><br />I agree with the ruling, but I don't agree with the way the customers handled the situation. It's common for restaurants to add the service charge to large parties, and at that point, it becomes a crime if you don't pay. <br /><br />If the customer was not satisfied with the service, they should have disputed the service charge with the management to eliminate or reduce it, rather than simply skipping out of that part of the check.

 

[Barlow]

Re: Here's a tip for you--Don't leave a small tip

LMAO!<br />another reason to have legal counsel...<br />dealing with menus.

 

[11 footer]

Re: Here's a tip for you--Don't leave a small tip

SBN,<br />"go out and get a real job"<br /><br />A real job, any idea what kind of hours these people work? Not to mention the people in the kitchen who work even HARDER and longer, and if they are lower end workers they make less then the wait staff.<br /><br />EDIT: Personal insults deleted.<br /><br />Un-real point of view.<br /><br />

 

[PatPatterson]

Re: Here's a tip for you--Don't leave a small tip

Originally posted by mattttt25:<br /> .....if you can't afford to tip 15% or more, stay home......

It's not a question of whether or not I can afford to tip 15%. The question I have is, if the service is bad, and the wait staff inattentive, how else do I show that I am not a satisfied customer except with the tip?<br /><br />From all of the "Pro Automatic Tip" opinions that I have read on this, it would seem that the server is basically a contract worker, and that they are only very marginally connected with the restaurant at all, in that we are told many times above that "you pay for your food with the bill, and your service with the tip" Ok, then. The server is responsible for his or her own income level. I agree with that.<br /><br />If the meal is bad, I do not take it out on the server, I ask to speak to the manager, and make my complaint known to him. I do not base my tip on the quality of the food, because the server did not cook it. <br /><br />If the service is bad, why should I not do the same? The server is responsible for the service. If they deserve a tip, I will tip. I do not tip 15% for extraordinary service. I have tipped as much as 50%, when the service rated it. I will not tip 15% for poor or nonexistent service. <br /><br />No one forces a person to work as a server, for less than minimum wage. It is a choice they make. A 15% tip is for good service. It goes up or down, based on the service. It is not automatic.<br /><br /> "Still wavering on whether you should leave 15 percent or 20 percent? Keep a few things in mind. You should always tip for quality of service -- that's universal. "If someone does something extra for you, of course you want to be more generous. If you get bad service, you don't tip a lot," said Sue Fox, author of "Etiquette for Dummies". "

 

[wilkin250r]

Re: Here's a tip for you--Don't leave a small tip

Personally, I agree that you shouldn't feel obligated to tip 15%. 15% is the "standard". If the service is substandard, the tip should reflect that. And this is coming from somebody that has served for years (myself).<br /><br />But at the same time, I don't think you should ever leave zero, unless the service was outstandingly bad. Think of it as a linear scale. If you got half the service you ordinarily expect, then leave a 7% tip. But don't leave zero unless you actually had to go to the kitchen to get your dinner yourself (zero service).<br /><br />Look at yourself as a customer. If I bring you extra tomato for your salad, extra bread, more beans, another salad dressing, extra butter, steak sauce, more water, extra sour cream for your potato, refill your soda 4 times, an extra spoon, a to-go bag for your dinner, and another to-go bag later for your desert, and then you tip me the standard 15%, I'm going to curse your name as you walk out the door. You just requested 3 times more service than the standard customer, but are only going to pay the standard amount?<br /><br />And me personally, I like to look at other circumstances before I leave the tip. If I get mediocre service, and I saw the server standing at the front desk hitting on the hostess all night, I'll leave a sub-standard tip. If I get that same level of service, but I see the server is busy as heck, running back and forth to the kitchen, basically busting his chops, then I'll know the reason for the mediocre service and realize that I got as good a service as he was capable of providing, I'll leave a good tip.

 

[PatPatterson]

Re: Here's a tip for you--Don't leave a small tip

What he said Up there above this..<br /><br />You are exactly correct, Wilkin. That is the type of service that deserves 20%, 30%, or even more.

 

[Kenneth Brown]

Re: Here's a tip for you--Don't leave a small tip

I gotta jump in on this one. Sometimes 15 year olds are right. My mom was a waitress her entire life. She is 50 and has been unemployeed the last two years WITHOUT disability pay because of the waitressing. She has Degenertive disc diesese, shes basicly falling apart and theres not a damn thing we can do to stop it. She did real well for us. She never had a whole lot but she made it last. She would make 50-75 a day in tips, around holidays her regulars would put in quite a bit more. Several left her a brand new clean $100 bill every year. A real job? Buddy you need a life. <br /><br /><br />I had more to add but figured why argue with a fool, he's just gonna bring me down to his level and beat me with experiance.

 

[11 footer]

Re: Here's a tip for you--Don't leave a small tip

I agree 100% Kenneth.<br /><br />Some servers can be bad people, get a group of bad one's working at the same restaurant, they'll start screwing restaurant. Some don't care about anything other then how much money they have in there pocket at the end of the night, and screw everyone else.<br /><br />That's only a small amount of them, there are many,many hard working people who bust there a$$ off for years, work long hard hours and have to put up with a lot of crap and stress everyday at work. These people should be rewarded, not stiffed by some cheap jerk because he doesn't like the way the whole world tips people who wait on them.

 

[JB]

Re: Here's a tip for you--Don't leave a small tip

I am truly surprised at you, SBN.<br /><br />"Get a real job" is the sort of comment an elitist snob would make. Not a down home redneck country boy.<br /><br />Food and beverage servers have real, hard jobs. Most do it fairly well and deserve a gratuity of around 15%. Some do it exceptionally well and deserve more. More people learn how to deal with a fickle and rude public by "waiting tables" than any other method I know.<br /><br />If they do it badly they deserve feedback. . . a comment or a small gratuity. Even the bad ones don't deserve to be ridiculed as "non-working" people.