HELP!!! Trouble with TM and/or Batteries

[will_d]

I have a Motorguide tour edition 82lb thrust 24V trolling motor. I also have 2 Delco voyager 29's that are approx 5 months old. My charger is a dual pro (Triton boats) onboard system. Here is my problem: I fish bass tournaments weekly and I have not made it a full day without killing my batteries in about 6 weeks. I have had both batteries load tested several times and they come back to be excellent. I have also checked all connections between the batteries and the TM itself and everything looks great. I have spoken with motorguide several times and they cannot tell me any reason that the TM should be killing batteries so fast. I assume the charger is working properly (the batteries both have over 13V each when I checked them after disconnecting the charger). The batteries seem to be very strong for the 1st 3-4 hours of a tournament, then they go downhill rapidly midmorning or so until I am left basically dead in the water by 12-1 PM. I have tried everything I know to do to find the problem and have come up with nothing. Does anyone have any suggestions or has anyone had any similar problems with seemingly "great" batteries? Thank you so much in advance!!!

 

[Silvertip]

Re: HELP!!! Trouble with TM and/or Batteries

You first must understand that your motor draws approximately 56 amps maximum. Somewhat less at lower speed settings. But lets use the 56 amps as a measure. Your group size 29 batteries are likely rated somewhere in the 180 reserve minute range. That rating is based on a either a 23 or 25 amp current draw. What this means is that the batteries will power a a 23 or 25 amp load for 180 minutes or three hours. You have motor that draws 56 amps which is over twice the value used for the reserve capacity calculation. So should you run that motor at full speed with a heavily loaded boat, technically the battery would drop out of that spec in an hour and a half. You seem to make it 3 - 4 hours so you are obviously not running full speed but at that time you would indeed be nearing the end of the run time for the batteries. I don't think you have a problem. If you need more run time you need group size 31 batteries or perhaps paralleling another pair of group 29's with the current pair.

 

[fucawi]

Re: HELP!!! Trouble with TM and/or Batteries

I have one of these 86lb thrust motors ...I run it on 12v (both batteies in parallel) and the boat does 3.2 kts it draws 25 A ..if I go to 24v and 56 A I get 3.8 kts....... so if you put your 2 12v batteries in parallel you will get approx 4 times the running time.....I did tweak the prop a bit with a hot air gun to improve the speed.

If you look on your battery you may see a figure marked RC for reserve capacity ..this is how long it will go at 25 A ..... it says 210 min .for your battery ......so at 56A you will only get 100 min with the two in parallel you will get over 420 min

 

[John_S]

Re: HELP!!! Trouble with TM and/or Batteries

Come back and tell us how you use the trolling motor. Of those first 3-4 hours, how much time is actually running the trolling motor, and are you typically running it at half speed or above?

Anything else on the batteries?, such as live-well? large color screen ff/gps?

 

[John_S]

Re: HELP!!! Trouble with TM and/or Batteries

I have one of these 86lb thrust motors ...I run it on 12v (both batteies in parallel) and the boat does 3.2 kts it draws 25 A ..if I go to 24v and 56 A I get 3.8 kts.......

Are those measured values on a typical competition bass boat? Based on those numbers, I'd assume a small, light boat. 12V @ 25A would be around 25lb thrust, and you are getting 3.7mph. What current do you draw at 24V if you match the 3.2kts? Should be somewhere around 12.5A.

If the same amount of work is being performed, you are not going to get any additional reserve by putting batteries in parrellel.

 

[will_d]

Re: HELP!!! Trouble with TM and/or Batteries

I use the TM fairly heavily for the first few hours, as I am looking for active bites and covering water. I also realize how many amps are available from my batteries and TM amp draw. What I cannot figure out is why I have run AC delco batteries for 7 plus years and never had them fail me in under 2 years. Even after 2 plus years, the batteries that fail will test "bad". These batteries test to be perfect and will not perform at even half the level of the others I have had. I have not changed the style of fishing and TM usage and I have the same TM, the batteries just will not last anymore. They were purchased in Mar 2011 and worked very well until about 6 weeks ago and now they are crap. I believe that there has to be a problem somewhere. "Good" batteries just do not go from performing at a high level to barely performing at all overnight.

 

[fucawi]

Re: HELP!!! Trouble with TM and/or Batteries

well they do if you A/ leave them discharged or B/ over discharge them eg below 10.8v.

If you have the resistive controller that is not efficient for low speeds at 24v
Need more figures from the user

 

[will_d]

Re: HELP!!! Trouble with TM and/or Batteries

The only thing running off those batteries is the TM. The batteries have ALWAYS been charged immediately after use. I talked to AC delco customer service and they said there is nothing they can do if the batteries load test good. I do not want to eat a brand new set of batteries if I dont have to. Is there any additional information that I can provide?

 

[fucawi]

Re: HELP!!! Trouble with TM and/or Batteries

A load test is more along the lines of will it work a starter motor rather than is it up to the capacity stated which although not quoted seems to be about 120 AH (10 hr rate) what I would do although its a pain is fully charge one ..you must get it up to 14.4v ..leave 24hrs then connect a 60w headlamp bulb and see how long it takes to go down to 10.8v...that bulb draws approx 5A so for every hour 5 AH ,,,so should last 20 -24 hrs ..if its well down on this you have a case...

 

[dwparker99]

Re: HELP!!! Trouble with TM and/or Batteries

I would try an isolate whether I had a battery problem or a TM/wiring problem. To check batteries, I would charge and check voltage individually after letting batteries rest for at least 4 hours and then every 24 hours after until I went fishing. While fishing I would check voltage about every hour to see if one battery is dying a premature death. If batteries discharge equally, I would suspect TM/wiring. I would check TM prop shaft for fishing line, etc. Check Tm plug and recpt. and foot control for evidence of something heating up. If I had a 4 wire system and a 24v only TM, I would take 2 of the 4 wires out of the system.

 

[fucawi]

Re: HELP!!! Trouble with TM and/or Batteries

only a capacity test will move your knowledge in the right direction.

 

[John_S]

Re: HELP!!! Trouble with TM and/or Batteries

Was the load test done by a factory authorized dealer or local parts store or garage? A general "generic" load test might not pick up anything. A generic load is placed on the battery for X seconds, and if the voltage doesn't drop to a certain point is is "labeled" good. Could even be idiot lights. So without knowing the load, the time on the load, and the voltage, hard to argue if it was a good test.

A factory authorized dealer "might" have tested based on knowing it was a DC and other specific battery model parameters. or they might have used one of the more computerized testers that can give a capacity reading, based on preprogramed profiles.

Before doing a 24 hour test, read up about battery safety, and talk with Customer Service, to see if they will accept the results of such a test. Without a data logger you might not get much sleep. Also ask them for the specifics to a good load test for your battery model. What should the load be, how long should it be on the load, and what voltage should it be above. They will probably connect you to the tech dept then.

Have you checked the voltage at the batteries when fully charged and when discharged? at the trolling motor plug? under load? Checked the wiring for any "hot" spots? If not, it is something you may want to try on a non-tx day. Most recent FF have a voltage monitor function. If it is relatively easy to swap to monitor an individual trolling motor battery, might consider that.

 

[fucawi]

Re: HELP!!! Trouble with TM and/or Batteries

two of these ..they go to 20v is what I have and at $5 or less each and drawing 0.007 A whats the reason not to ...dont let them go below 10.8v..look on e bay for digital voltmeter

 

[fucawi]

Re: HELP!!! Trouble with TM and/or Batteries

12V @ 25A would be around 25lb thrust, and you are getting 3.7mph. What current do you draw at 24V if you match the 3.2kts? Should be somewhere around 12.5A.

If the same amount of work is being performed, you are not going to get any additional reserve by putting batteries in parrellel.

I knew there was a floor in this somewhere ..when I run on 12v thats 12v direct to the motor brushes 12x25 is 300watts.
If you run on 24v and reduce the current to 12.5A yes you pull 300w BUT its not 300w at the motor because you have your resistive controller in series

 

[John_S]

Re: HELP!!! Trouble with TM and/or Batteries

12V @ 25A would be around 25lb thrust, and you are getting 3.7mph. What current do you draw at 24V if you match the 3.2kts? Should be somewhere around 12.5A.

If the same amount of work is being performed, you are not going to get any additional reserve by putting batteries in parrellel.

I knew there was a floor in this somewhere ..when I run on 12v thats 12v direct to the motor brushes 12x25 is 300watts.
If you run on 24v and reduce the current to 12.5A yes you pull 300w BUT its not 300w at the motor because you have your resistive controller in series

I must not understand your 12/24 motor correctly. If running on 12V and you have all 12V at brushes, with a resistive type controller, that would say you are on the "high" setting (no resister in path). A motor rated at 86lbs thrust @ 24V, should be more capable than just using a max of 25A on high with 12V.

While I was thinking you had a PWM controlled TM, and could just dial it in to the correct speed, you should be able to be relatively close at one of the speed settings. Then just measure total current draw of the motor. Measure same for current at your 12V. Yes, you will lose a little efficiency across the resisiter, but it won't be magnitudes off, which would be required to see the efficiencies claimed by running the batteries in parrellel.

 

[fucawi]

Re: HELP!!! Trouble with TM and/or Batteries

yes I run 12v and the motor at max so no power wasted in the controller ..if I remember right at 12 v it only pulled 18A ( tested in the swimming pool) so I heated and bent the prop a bit to get it up to 25 A . I have a meter reading volts and amps in the circuit

 

[kahuna123]

Re: HELP!!! Trouble with TM and/or Batteries

Where are you located??? I used to own a trolling motor shop. I was certified MG and Kota. If your running a Triton is must be the South.

 

[John_S]

Re: HELP!!! Trouble with TM and/or Batteries

yes I run 12v and the motor at max so no power wasted in the controller ..if I remember right at 12 v it only pulled 18A ( tested in the swimming pool) so I heated and bent the prop a bit to get it up to 25 A . I have a meter reading volts and amps in the circuit

As long as you tested the same prop at both 12V and 24V, it shouldn't matter.

I assumed you increased the pitch of the prop to try to get some additional speed. I have never tried that, but would expect that it is hard to keep all blades the same, without introducing vibration. Increasing the pitch, would increase load, and it would draw more amps to maintain rpm at the same voltage. I would imagine that your speed increase was not proportional to the additional amp draw. I would have expected your miles per Ah would have decreased, after the mod.

 

[fucawi]

Re: HELP!!! Trouble with TM and/or Batteries

RC on this particular battery is 210 min at 25A if you doulble the draw to 50 A you dont get half the time you get 87 % of 105 min ie 92 min so with the wrong data Silver tip is spot on .

I am running a 24v 86 lb i Force which is a Minn Kota with the resistive controller. they sold the tooling to china when they all went electronic .....well made and cheap.

 

[John_S]

Re: HELP!!! Trouble with TM and/or Batteries

READ THIS POST AGAIN Silvertip is spot on.

It is correct if the OP was running at or near full tilt. If the OP was in electric only TX, then that might be normal. That type of trolling motor was the staple for the 18'/150HP TX days, and is still used by many in bass clubs. With typical bass fishing usage, they last most or all of the day. Crapping out in only half a day is not normal. The OP has already come back and said this is not his first clam bake, and 6 weeks ago something drastic changed. If it wasn't how he is using it, something is wrong.

But, the OP seems to be looking for the magic words that make customer service exchange the batteries. Sorry, don't know those words. Either he jumps in and trys to diagnois further, or just gets fustrated and buys a new set of batteries. At that point, he will find out if it was the batteries or not.

The other is mainly side conversation between fucawi and I. Discussion on 12V parrellel batteries VS 24V series batteries and usage. It keeps the topic active, until the OP posts some more data.