Help, How bad is this damage?

[imptfgtrz24]

Well as the title reads, Any input on the following pics...

I was out last week and the boat was beached and come to find out under the boat was rocks, and now I have alot of damage on the bottom of the boat. Can this be repaired with a simple Gel-Kote repair kit, with proper sanding and refinish or will I have to do fiberglass repair also??

I am open to simple how to's and am grateful for this Forum, wow so much info here...

Thanks Guys/Gals

 

[fat fanny]

Re: Help, How bad is this damage?

Wow!! I bet you won't make that mistake again! It looks as if you have worn throught he gel and exposed the top and or outer layer of glass. was there any water in the bilge after that trip? I would sand and prep for a gel coat repair job. If possible try access the area on the keel from the inside and shine a light through and try a leak test of some sort to be sure.

 

[oops!]

Re: Help, How bad is this damage?

that is what i call a full keel.....and it didnt happen in one day.

i think i saw a few thru hull holes....or at least deep penetration if the glass.
the proper way to repair that is to grind off all the gellcoat from the damaged keel.....glass it with csm ....a full layer of 1708....then another csm.....fair the glass....then re gell.

that is a big job for a diy.......at least 5k for a pro.

if you want to dyi....we can help you....but it wont happen without a lot of blood ...sweat....(more than you want) and tears.
i have done tons of boats just like that....and its no fun....hours of laying on your back...sanding fiberglass with your hands above your head pushing hard....

i do it cause i love boats ....and get paid...
but id rather lay in a ditch and stick pins in my eyes

cheers
oops

 

[imptfgtrz24]

Re: Help, How bad is this damage?

that is what i call a full keel.....and it didnt happen in one day.

i think i saw a few thru hull holes....or at least deep penetration if the glass.
the proper way to repair that is to grind off all the gellcoat from the damaged keel.....glass it with csm ....a full layer of 1708....then another csm.....fair the glass....then re gell.

that is a big job for a diy.......at least 5k for a pro.

if you want to dyi....we can help you....but it wont happen without a lot of blood ...sweat....(more than you want) and tears.
i have done tons of boats just like that....and its no fun....hours of laying on your back...sanding fiberglass with your hands above your head pushing hard....

i do it cause i love boats ....and get paid...
but id rather lay in a ditch and stick pins in my eyes

cheers
oops

Well we were out all last weekend so it was SAt and SUN in the same spot, and we didnt notice till we pulled it out. So yes wont happen again!! but now time to repair.

No water , so it looks as if it didnt puncture, however in the deep places I plan to lay some fiberglass repair kit over those places and just re gel the places that need it, however I want to sand down the whole bottom and repair all to make sure its a even fix, however it will take time to make sure its done right..

So would I be fine with the following,

1. Sand down the gel-kote

2. Repair the deep wounds with a fiberglass repair kit to bring back structure then gel kote the top?

3. Then lay a couple complete coats of gel kote?

However I guess my way of explaining it is the same as yours just lamons terms, haha. I just bought a nice creeper as I will be on my back for a while...

Any other tips...Thanks for all the input so far.

 

[imptfgtrz24]

Re: Help, How bad is this damage?

The 1708 you speak of and the CSM, can you perhaps give me some part numbers. I want to ensure I get the right products for the job.

Thanks again for your time...

 

[oops!]

Re: Help, How bad is this damage?

not quite my friend.....

a fiberglass repair kit will not do....lol.

minimum 5 gallins of poly resin..- 135 bux
10 yds of 1.5 csm= 80 bux
5 yds 1708 = 90 bux
milled fibers, short stand fibers and mixing stuff...50 bux

you need an air compressor, an air powered long sanding board. about 100 bux worth of sand paper. and other extras......that dont come in a kit....lol

you need to be able to lay the fiberglass over the hull in one shot.....so you might need to fliup the boat over....if you can it will save you abouut 80 hours hard labour.

grind off the gellcoat till you get to raw glass.....
fill holes with peanut butter (do a search or read my thread)
glass with csm.....then a 1708......then a final csm (the full distance of the hull and keel.....no patches)
after thats cured...start sanding...
fair till smooth .....fill all remaining poin holes with gell paste....
shoot gell at 55 thou thickness....start sanding till orangepeel is gone.....then buff.

what i just said is the real short of it.....there is a ton of other stuff and detailes to be discussed....
but i allways count on at least 80 hours sanding for a job like that.
there is a ton of stuff you need to know before you start. like safety, glassing basics, gellcoating basics, and a ton of other stuff.

this is a link to a blue water i just did.
http://classifieds.castanet.net/showproduct.php/product/907650/cat/297
that boat took me three weeks.
there isnt a good picture of the hull.....but its perfect.

dont kid your self........its a ton of work.....did i say a ton?
once you start there is no quitting.....or your boat is trash.
and no you just cant paint over that and sell it....you will be ripping someone off.

we can guide you......but we cant sand for you....lol
good luck !

 

[samo_ott]

Re: Help, How bad is this damage?

Wow... That doesn't sound like a lotta fun

 

[oops!]

Re: Help, How bad is this damage?

csm means chopped stand matt (this is fiberglass) the `1708 is another type of fiberglass cloth. 25oz total.

read my thread...lol....its all there....use the index.......after reading the first few pages about fiberglassing......you can skip to the place where i flip the hull and start fairing the bottom of the boat....then i gellcoat it.......its all there for you

cheers
oops

 

[imptfgtrz24]

Re: Help, How bad is this damage?

csm means chopped stand matt (this is fiberglass) the `1708 is another type of fiberglass cloth. 25oz total.

read my thread...lol....its all there....use the index.......after reading the first few pages about fiberglassing......you can skip to the place where i flip the hull and start fairing the bottom of the boat....then i gellcoat it.......its all there for you

cheers
oops

Well I do look forward to it cause its a project that I need to do and do it right. I will work around all the propblems and ensure it gets done right.

However my question is when I tested my boat the bottom was not leaking, thus my question is why lay more fiberglass on top of fiberglass if its not broke or leaking?? I can see sand down to the glass and lay new coats down to protect the boat but it reminds me of that saying if its not broke dont fix it. What is your take on this?

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: Help, How bad is this damage?

The 1708 you speak of and the CSM, can you perhaps give me some part numbers. I want to ensure I get the right products for the job.

Thanks again for your time...

Personally I dont see any Structural damage from the pics to warrant 1708 glass..

Here is what I would do/have done with this kinds of damage..

1. Buy a full face resporator and grinding/spray suit and some ear muffs.
2. Dykem the whole bottom repair area ( chine to chine ? or strake to strake ).
3. DA the blue dykem off ( prepping and getting rid of 50 % of scratches ).
4. Die grind out some "deeper" gouges
5. Remove All gel from the damaged areas ( Where the gel is totally nerfed and hashed out so close that you cant just die grind each repair without it becoming one repair ).
6. fill the deep gouges.
7. reprep and layup 1.5 oz mat and vinylester resin ( 1 or 2 layers depending on how thick the gel was to begin with ) over the raw glass you prepped
8. Final fill and fair your pinholes and little lows.
9. Final prep and spray gel ( oh yea its going to suk spraying over head for bottoms trust me ( again you Have that Full Face respo Right !? )).
10. sand and buff with grits appropriate to your orange peel.

YD.

 

[drewpster]

Re: Help, How bad is this damage?

Wow. How big is this boat? Inboard or outboard? Is it possible to flip it? Boy, I sure would. Even if I had to go to a yard and have it flipped on my trailer. YD and Oops may not mind a fiberglass shower, but I sure would.

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: Help, How bad is this damage?

I was kinda thinking this was an IO with internal fuel tank...

Yup..Id like to flip Every boat over with bottom jobs too .

With proper gear its really no big deal doing a bottom 20 footer repair.

YD.

 

[Sugo]

Re: Help, How bad is this damage?

It's hard to tell without having a better look, but your damage looks like surface damage only. I am sure you can get away with using a good pre-mix fiberglass putty (make sure it is the one for bellow the water line) Scrape coat the damaged area allow to dry, use a orbital sander with 180grit to get it smooth, repeat if necessary. There is color pigmentation you can add to your gel coat to get the color just right. Mix in the color pigmentation in small amounts into your gel coat (before adding your catalyst) wipe a bit of the gel coat with your finger on a the undamaged hull to check the color match. The gel coat does not change much when it dries. Apply gel coat (mix it hot for ease on an overhead application). Put it on thick. After it cures sand it with 280 then 400. Be careful to not push too hard with the sander as to not sand through the gel coat layer or you are back to the gel coating step adding time to this repair. A layer of cut polish and some wax and your back in business.

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: Help, How bad is this damage?

The gel coat does not change much when it dries..

Not true ( saying this in context ) you add pigment to gel and IT WILL change !

Your not going to repair this with gel paste.....period ! .. use the above described methods for repair with 1.5 oz mat..

Yes its going to be a PITA..but its right...

YD.

 

[drewpster]

Re: Help, How bad is this damage?

Tape all the dishes down, plug the tanks, turn off the power and you can flip a mega yacht!

I have also done some bottom work and I will have some to this extent coming up this summer. I will be watching this one carry on. (possible skin and barrier coat, I need a gelplane, bad pox problem, small soft spots)

I have to agree with these guys about the glass work. I would think exposed and damaged lams are not only weaker but are going to wick water. Get a good grinder, some safety stuff and cover up. A word of caution about keels on smaller boats. Just about all of them are scary thin. Adding some glass and bulking it up is a good idea on this one.

 

[imptfgtrz24]

Re: Help, How bad is this damage?

Personally I dont see any Structural damage from the pics to warrant 1708 glass..

Here is what I would do/have done with this kinds of damage..

1. Buy a full face resporator and grinding/spray suit and some ear muffs.
2. Dykem the whole bottom repair area ( chine to chine ? or strake to strake ).
3. DA the blue dykem off ( prepping and getting rid of 50 % of scratches ).
4. Die grind out some "deeper" gouges
5. Remove All gel from the damaged areas ( Where the gel is totally nerfed and hashed out so close that you cant just die grind each repair without it becoming one repair ).
6. fill the deep gouges.
7. reprep and layup 1.5 oz mat and vinylester resin ( 1 or 2 layers depending on how thick the gel was to begin with ) over the raw glass you prepped
8. Final fill and fair your pinholes and little lows.
9. Final prep and spray gel ( oh yea its going to suk spraying over head for bottoms trust me ( again you Have that Full Face respo Right !? )).
10. sand and buff with grits appropriate to your orange peel.

YD.

YD: No DAMAGE TO STRUCTURE and no leeks.

Thanks for the input on this repair as I am trying to gather as much as I can before I start this repair, it wont be fun but the best part will be how to repair for any future replays of rocks.

YD: Thanks for the info, and I am agreeing with your method, as that is what I was going to do, Perhaps you can point me in the direction of some places to purchase this stuff online as I cant buy any of this locally.

Also in step 6 you say to FILL the DEEP holes, With what? Sorry dumb question

Also Thanks for your time as I will continue to keep everyone posted on this repair in the next week.

Thanks again,

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: Help, How bad is this damage?

Try Composites One for materials..

The filler for semi-deeper gouges I use my Own "mohair" ( cabosil/resin/scissored up CSM and MEKP for hardener ).

Matter of fact I hardly Ever use filler out of a can ( unless Im filling pinholes in glass before spray ). Allthough Im keeping my eye out on some of the newer 3m vinylester fillers available .

YD.

 

[imptfgtrz24]

Re: Help, How bad is this damage?

Finally Fixed and no leaks... I followed the directions given by you guys/gals and everything worked out very well.

Alot of sanding and spraying, and waiting for drying.

Thanks to all for the help with this adventure.

 

[tlzimmerman]

Re: Help, How bad is this damage?

Cool, nice to see the finished product.

Did you just use the 1.5 oz csm?

 

[jamiemac74]

Re: Help, How bad is this damage?

WOW!!!!! Awesome job. I have a small area on the bottom of my boat about 7"-8" around where we pulled up to a rope swing (Mud bottom) I knew better. Luckily it barely penetrated the gelcoat. This info was helpfull in figuring out my repair. Thanks alot guys...