Help for a Newbe... 85 Johnson 30HP

[Darren94]

UPDATED, please read below, problem is still present.

Hey guys, i am a new member to the site but, have been using it for research and lurking for a long while now. However, I just cant seem to get my problem fixed. I have an 1985 Evinrude 30HP (model number E30RCOA) that has very low hours but, i have been chasing a spit/sputter/bog problem since i purchased it. The odd part is that some times it runs perfectly for a few outings then randomly, it will have trouble starting but, after pumping the primer, it will fire up, spit, sputter, pop, then bog down and stall.

Though research on here, last Friday i replaced the the old rusty tank with a new plastic model, new fuel lines, new in line fuel filter and new connectors from the tank to the motor and replaced the plugs gaped to .030. I took the boat out yesterday after the new parts were installed and it ran FLAWLESSLY all day. Spent 5-6 hours fishing/running around the lake and it ran perfect so, i thought i had fixed the problem. But, once i got back to the dock and tried to restart it to drive it on the trailer, the problem was back. Would not start unless the primer was pushed then it would spit/sputter and bog until it stalled. Had to paddle back to the dock and hand load it.

So, once i got it home, i noticed that i had not opened the breather valve on the new tank and it had created a large amount of vacuum. So, i opened the valve, and tried for almost a half hour to start it on the fake a lake but, the problem is still present.

I then removed the fuel pump and took it completely apart. Other than not remembering how it goes back together, it was very clean and i could not see any clear problems. I am stumped. Any ideas? It seems like it must be fuel related.

Thanks,
Darren

 

[mmuutts]

Re: Help for a Newbe... 85 Johnson 30HP

Hi Darren,

Sounds like you have some crud in the carb..it only takes a speck on a needle valve to do just what you are talking about..It also sounds like you might have/be getting air in the line some where. Anyway, thats my thoughts..I am sure one the pros will chim in and head you in the right direction...good luck

 

[Cofe]

Re: Help for a Newbe... 85 Johnson 30HP

The diaphragm in the fuel pump can get weak with age. I would suggest re-kitting the fuel pump. The carb could be dirty and the fuel hoses could be degrading also. Your problem is fuel related.

 

[Darren94]

Re: Help for a Newbe... 85 Johnson 30HP

So, would it be a good bet to order carb rebuild/fuel pump rebuild kits and clean/rebuild them both?

Anyone have a link to a diagram of the actual fuel pump? I took it all apart and cant seem to get it back right.

 

[Cofe]

Re: Help for a Newbe... 85 Johnson 30HP

Here are the first five instructions, more to follow in next post. Oops....didn't get them in the right order. You should be able to tell which picture goes with it's instructions.:redface:

 

[Cofe]

Re: Help for a Newbe... 85 Johnson 30HP

And two more instructions. Hope these help you get it running.

 

[Darren94]

Re: Help for a Newbe... 85 Johnson 30HP

Cofe, Thanks!!! That is exactly what i was looking for. I ordered rebuild kits and will install this week.

Ill let everyone know how this turns out.

 

[Darren94]

Re: Help for a Newbe... 85 Johnson 30HP

So an update. I ordered new kits for the carb and fuel pump and did the rebuilds. Installed everything and the problem is still present. It will ONLY start when i pump the primer then it sputters, bogs and then dies. What am i missing? In the last week i have installed new fuel pump and carb kits, all new fuel lines, new fuel tank and connectors, new plugs and i aslo checked the compression. It was 127 on both jugs.

However, this evening i did notice that the plug wire for the bottom cylinder is arching (sp?) from the wire to the block. But, not on the plug side of the wire, its happening on the other end of the wire. I dont thaink this is related but, i will be ordering new wires anyway.

So, in conclusion, the entire fuel system is new or rebuilt, compression is good, fuel is new, and when i turn it over with the fuel pump nipple open, it pumps fuel very well. Needle and plugs are also wet. I am truly stumpped.

I did notice that the main needle that is adjustable for the mixture that sticks out from the front of the carb, is a little bunged up. Meaning, the needle point has some small (tiny) dings.

Any ideas, i am really at my witts end with this thing.

 

[DamianJP]

Re: Help for a Newbe... 85 Johnson 30HP

When you rebuilt the carbs you set all the mixture screws to what they should be?

The coil is grounding out to the block, gotta get that fixed. Check part 44 for cracks and such, and you can start or crank the motor in the dark and see where the spark is coming from.

Fuel sounds like it getting to were it needs to be but not getting a strong (or if not any) spark on that cylinder which has that spark arching (grounding) to the block.

Also you prolly have 2 coils check them both for cracks. Most people will say if you replace one coil automaticlly do the other but Iv'e have atleast 5 cases which I replaced just the bad one and the motors I still have are rocking and rolling still.

DamianJP

 

[Darren94]

Re: Help for a Newbe... 85 evinrude 30HP

Re: Help for a Newbe... 85 evinrude 30HP

The only adjustment screw is the main one that i was referring to as being slightly dinged up but, i marked it where it was before, and put it right back there.

Would the spark issue cause the problem i am reporting? If so, how come it will only start when the primer is pumped? I guess i am not getting that part. Granted, the spark problem is a big issue, i just did not think it would cause my reported problem.

 

[DamianJP]

Re: Help for a Newbe... 85 evinrude 30HP

Re: Help for a Newbe... 85 evinrude 30HP

Not sure why the priming is helping it start.

Does the engine stay alive when you keep pumping it?

Or does pumping it help get it going, but even when you pump the bulb to keep it alive it spit, sputter, pops?


EDIT: I said check both coils before, you have 1 carb and 1 coil from them schematic. Sorry for the mis information.


DamianJP

 

[udaddy]

Re: Help for a Newbe... 85 evinrude 30HP

Re: Help for a Newbe... 85 evinrude 30HP

make sure u check the line inside your tank cause I had the same problem and my boat had a cracked line at the top of the tube I flipped it over and solved my prolbem.. hope that helps

 

[Darren94]

Re: Help for a Newbe... 85 evinrude 30HP

Re: Help for a Newbe... 85 evinrude 30HP

DamianJP, Even if i keep pumping, it sputters and dies. Does not keep it running. But, it does sound bad. Like its only hitting on one cylinder.

udaddy, Thanks for the tip, ill check into to that.

 

[DamianJP]

Re: Help for a Newbe... 85 evinrude 30HP

Re: Help for a Newbe... 85 evinrude 30HP

So you have 2 cylinders, schematic was showing 1 coil? Or just the sound it is making?


Well I think its the spark , and since you already see the coil (or one of the coils) grounding out I would start there.
Can be other things like stator , power pack ect but I dont think so.

Check coil(s) for cracks and damaged wires or around were the spark wires plug onto the coil area. Crank the motor in the dark to see where its coming from.

DamianJP

 

[oldslowandugly]

Re: Help for a Newbe... 85 evinrude 30HP

Re: Help for a Newbe... 85 evinrude 30HP

This is a rope start tiller motor, correct? With a manual primer? If so, the manual primer has 3 positions. Fully closed-pushed all the way in; start-all the way out; and warm up-half way out. You are supposed to pull it all the way out and pump it to initially prime the motor. When it starts you push it half way in so it still feeds extra fuel as it warms up. Then you push it all the way in to close it once the motor is warmed up and idling smoothly. It sounds like the primer may be leaking fuel to the carb when it shouldn't, and not all the time. You should feel positive detents when moving the handle in and out, meaning it should snap into the closed position. The test would be to start the motor, get it warmed up, and remove the primer fuel line from the top of the carb from the nipple. If it runs better, and leaks fuel from the hose, then there's the culprit. I have the same motor, and only learned this by buying an owner's manual on Ebay, which explained the proper starting procedure. If it's shot it's available, but not cheap.

 

[Darren94]

Re: Help for a Newbe... 85 evinrude 30HP

Re: Help for a Newbe... 85 evinrude 30HP

Thanks for the replys guys. I will be turning it over in the dark tonight to see where it is arching from. I will also inspect the coils. There are actually 2. One for each plug wire / cylinder.

As far as the primer, it is pretty much just a pump. There are no stopping points when using it. When i push it in, i hear it squirt fuel into the carb then it fires right up. But, once that fuel is burned, it bogs out and stalls. Hence why i have been thinking its a fuel not getting to the carb issue. I will also try to start it using the method outlined above.

I will post back and let all know how its going.

 

[DamianJP]

Re: Help for a Newbe... 85 Johnson 30HP

Cool Good Luck !

Yup it does sound like an fuel issue, but its very strange how when you keep pumping it to try to keep it alive it doesn't stay alive usually that keeps it alive.

Is it a new primer bulb and lines? If you have another swap it out and try it.

Im thinking that when you fix the coil(s) from arching and not grounding out you will be %100, but don't hold me to it .


DamianJP

 

[nauticool]

Re: Help for a Newbe... 85 Johnson 30HP

Hi

Have the same outboard but its a 1989. Have you tried the link n sync? Look at my threads for instructions on this.

I had the same symptoms as you and now mine runs sweet!

Glenn

 

[oldslowandugly]

Re: Help for a Newbe... 85 Johnson 30HP

If the primer doesn't snap into the closed position, shutting off the flow, it may be broken. Try this- remove the primer fuel line at the top of the carb. Choke the carb with a piece of cardboard or something just to get it started. When it starts, observe the fuel line you disconnected. Is fuel flowing when it shouldn't? Does it run OK now?

 

[jasper60103]

Re: Help for a Newbe... 85 Johnson 30HP

Thanks for the replys guys. I will be turning it over in the dark tonight to see where it is arching from. I will also inspect the coils. There are actually 2. One for each plug wire / cylinder.

As far as the primer, it is pretty much just a pump. There are no stopping points when using it. When i push it in, i hear it squirt fuel into the carb then it fires right up. But, once that fuel is burned, it bogs out and stalls. Hence why i have been thinking its a fuel not getting to the carb issue. I will also try to start it using the method outlined above.

I will post back and let all know how its going.

I have the same motor and I'm curious about your starting procedure. For cold starting, I usually pump the primer 3x and leave it in the out position. I slide it in after the motor starts and runs a bit. You may want to review the starting procedure here.