*HELP* 2000 Johnson 90hp

[tjt1980]

Several weeks ago, I was cruising accross the lake, and all of the sudden the siren went off and the "no oil" light came on. I slowed to a halt and by the time I started investigating, the siren stopped. When I looked down at the guage, the light stayed aluminated for several more seconds, then went out. I figured everything was cool, so I hit the throttle and proceeded. About 30 minutes later, the same thing happened. It has been happening every 15 minutes of operation or so. It only happens when i'm at speed. Hitting wakes does not seem to make a difference. When I slow down, or stop, the siren stops and the light goes out.

I inspected everything from the VRO reservoir to the entry point to the motor. Everything looks good. No leaks, no kinks, no cracks in the line where air could get in, and the float sensor in the reservoir is operating perfectly.

The only thing I can see that could possibly be an issue is on top of the reservoir there are three entry points. The place where you put oil in, the place where the float sensor mounts, and a third place that has a capped off tube coming out of it. The rubber piece that is capping the tube in the third spot is dry rotted. I wrapped it in some electric tape and went on another spin. The problem still occurred.

Question #1: Am I doing damage to the motor every time that alarm goes off? If so, how much?

Question #2: Does anyone have any idea what I can do to troubleshoot this thing? I think it is the oil pump or the sensor on the pump, but I don't know how to prove it.

Thanks so much for all your help. This forum is awesome!

Oh yeah, my motor is a 2000 Johnson 90hp Outboard mounted on a 1999 Glastron GS-160. I do not have a manual for the motor or the boat.

 

[tjt1980]

Re: *HELP* 2000 Johnson 90hp

No one has any input? There seem to be a lot of knowledgeable people on this forum. Someone has had to see this problem before. Does anyone have any guidance? Please. I would like to enjoy the summer while it is still here. Thanks.

 

[Cricket Too]

Re: *HELP* 2000 Johnson 90hp

tjt1980.....I am gonna start with the obvious, and ask if there is enough oil in the resevoir, since you didn't mention it in the post. But that would put the "Low Oil" light on anyway, so basically you have a siutation where it is sensing or think it's sensing no oil coming through into the OMS pump.

The first thing you should do is look for any water in the bottom of the resevoir, if you can't see the bottom of it, pull it out and dump it and see if any water comes out, water will sit on the bottom since it's heavier than oil.

If you take it out, inspect the filter sock on the intake and replace it since you have it out.

It doesn't sound like the sensor, since you said it stops everytime you slow down. EVen though technically there isn't VRO anymore, I think the OMS pumps, still use slightly less at idle.

So next I would look for any leaks or places air could get into the oil line up unde rthe engine cowling, leading up to the OMS pump.

Mark your oil level on your resevoir and run the motor and make sure your engine is using oil. I would premix your fuel tank at 50:1 until your sure your using oil, just to be safe and not cause any damage.

If you check those and find nothing wrong and/or still have the problem, I would post back and say what you checked and take it from there. I'm sure other people will add onto this.

 

[tjt1980]

Re: *HELP* 2000 Johnson 90hp

tjt1980.....I am gonna start with the obvious, and ask if there is enough oil in the resevoir, since you didn't mention it in the post. But that would put the "Low Oil" light on anyway, so basically you have a siutation where it is sensing or think it's sensing no oil coming through into the OMS pump.

The first thing you should do is look for any water in the bottom of the resevoir, if you can't see the bottom of it, pull it out and dump it and see if any water comes out, water will sit on the bottom since it's heavier than oil.

If you take it out, inspect the filter sock on the intake and replace it since you have it out.

It doesn't sound like the sensor, since you said it stops everytime you slow down. EVen though technically there isn't VRO anymore, I think the OMS pumps, still use slightly less at idle.

So next I would look for any leaks or places air could get into the oil line up unde rthe engine cowling, leading up to the OMS pump.

Mark your oil level on your resevoir and run the motor and make sure your engine is using oil. I would premix your fuel tank at 50:1 until your sure your using oil, just to be safe and not cause any damage.

If you check those and find nothing wrong and/or still have the problem, I would post back and say what you checked and take it from there. I'm sure other people will add onto this.

The oil reservoir is full. I fill it to the top before every use. Also, I have been monitoring it and the level has been going down gradually. Maybe 1 inch for every 4 gallons of fuel or so. I see smoke when I start it, but not after it has been running for a while.

I'll check for water today.

I had the reservoir taken apart the other day and all the parts looked good. To include the filter sock. However, if i recall, there may have been a small amount of white stuff in it. Water?

Maybe it's because i'm a rookie, but I can't seem to pinpoint the OMS and i don't have a manual. Other than that, I've checked everything up to where the oil line enters the cowling and everything looks good. No leaks, dry rot, or anything.

Keep the info coming. Thanks for all your help.

 

[Cricket Too]

Re: *HELP* 2000 Johnson 90hp

The OMS is the fuel/oil pump. SOme people still refer to it as the VRO (Variable Ration Oiling) pump, but VRO hasn't been around for a while, they switched to straight constant 50:1 mix in the pump and it is now called OMS (Oil Metering System), although I think they still run about 75:1 at idle, or so I read.

Take your cover off and inspect the lines all the way until you run into the pump, and take a look at the pump itself, the fuel line will be going ot it as well. Check the pump for any cracks or anything obvious.

 

[offshore100]

Re: *HELP* 2000 Johnson 90hp

also, tjt, the "no oil sensor" is that bit on the front of your pump assembly. If I'm not mistaken, and someone more knowledgeable than I please feel free to educate me if I am, it counts stator pulses or some such before resetting; if it doesn't sense correctly, it'll go off. Could be a "ghost" in your sensor electronics, especially since you say oil IS being consumed.

 

[tjt1980]

Re: *HELP* 2000 Johnson 90hp

The OMS is the fuel/oil pump. SOme people still refer to it as the VRO (Variable Ration Oiling) pump, but VRO hasn't been around for a while, they switched to straight constant 50:1 mix in the pump and it is now called OMS (Oil Metering System), although I think they still run about 75:1 at idle, or so I read.

Take your cover off and inspect the lines all the way until you run into the pump, and take a look at the pump itself, the fuel line will be going ot it as well. Check the pump for any cracks or anything obvious.

Is it common to disable the OMS and premix your fuel? If so, is it the same process as disabling the VRO? Thanks guys.

 

[Cricket Too]

Re: *HELP* 2000 Johnson 90hp

People do disconnect them and premix, and it's exactly the same as disconnecting the VRO, but I wouldn't reccomend it, the OMS system is a very good system and is pretty problem free. Pre-mixing is a pain. I just bought a 97 Johnson 115 SPL and it's got T&T but no OMS and I wish it did, I hate pre-mixing.

 

[tjt1980]

Re: *HELP* 2000 Johnson 90hp

Here's what I found today.

First I removed the cowling and air intake to get a better look at the OMS pump. there was oil residue and a small amount of water inside the cowling, but no pools or anything that looked suspicious. I figure it came from where the air intake meets the carbs. Does this sound right? I inspected the pump and where the oil hose mounts to the pump. Everything looked good. What is the red knob for?

I cleaned up the inside of the cowling a little and headed for the oil reservoir. I removed the oil inlet for the OMS from the reservoir and placed it in an oil pan. There was definitely some cream colored goo in the sock. It eventually oozed out of the sock with the rest of the oil. Now that I had the reservoir free form the OMS, I lifted it and took a look at the bottom. I can't tell if there is any water, but there is definitely about a 1/4 inch of that cream colored goo covering the bottom of the reservoir.

Maybe the goo is getting sucked up by the OMS with the oil?
If the sensor senses pulses, wouldn't the oil pump sensor sense this stuff as oil and not trigger the alarm?
Do you think this may be the problem?
If so, how do I separate the oil from it?
Also, how would I tell if there is water in the reservoir?

Thanks again. You guys have been great.

 

[noelm]

Re: *HELP* 2000 Johnson 90hp

don't want to hijack anyones repair advice here, but if you have any "goo" in the tank, clean it out, pour out the oil and for the sake of a few dollars, discard it, use whatever you can to clean out the tank, and replace the oil, even maybe go to the trouble of disconnecting the oil line at the motor and prime fresh oil up to it.

 

[tjt1980]

Re: *HELP* 2000 Johnson 90hp

don't want to hijack anyones repair advice here, but if you have any "goo" in the tank, clean it out, pour out the oil and for the sake of a few dollars, discard it, use whatever you can to clean out the tank, and replace the oil, even maybe go to the trouble of disconnecting the oil line at the motor and prime fresh oil up to it.

Thanks! All are welcome. Hopefully the information learned here will benefit others as well.

What you said was going to be my next step regardless, but I was curious to what people thought about my other questions as well. Also, I just filled up the reservoir with fresh oil last week. I really don't want to throw it all away. I'll figure something out. Anyone else have any input?

 

[Cricket Too]

Re: *HELP* 2000 Johnson 90hp

Hey tjt.....The cream colored "goo" sounds a lot to me like water intrusion, when water mixes with oil it looks like a milkshake, especially 2 stroke oil.

It will take a while for it to separate out, so since it was on the bottom I'd say it was starting to. And the fact that it was in the sock, just means you sucked some up.

I don't know for sure, but I think that the sensor will sense how the pump is pulsing and a thinned out oil or water would not have as much resistance, hense faster pulses. That may not be right though, but I know the "No Fuel" warning senses fuel flow somehow also.

I would say that is a very good starting point to your problem. Don't try to save the oil that's in there, it's all been contaminated, and will not mix with the fuel corrrectly in the OMS pump. A gallon of oil is anywhere from $6-$15, do you really want to risk your powerhead for $15-$25 worth of oil??

After you dump that oil out, clean the resevoir and as was mentioned by noelm, clean it out good and re-fill, get a new sock while your at it, and then take the main oil line off of the OMS pump and pump the primer until good clean fresh oil comes out. I've had to do this before and have had all kinds of milky crap come out and some straight water.

I had a friend who ruined a powerhead on a brand new Johnson 150 because he got water in his resevoir and sucked it up. It was do to the placement of the resevoir in the bilge and a defect on a washdown pump that would leak water right into the resevoir. He got lucky and the boat manufacturer replaced his powerhead, but I remember pumping his oil primer and seeing a lot of "goo" come out.

Where is your resevoir located, is there anything around it that could have gotten water in it? Even if there isn't, make sure you get that cap back on tight and look to see if there is any other way water could have gotten in.

Once you run it again, I would let it idle for about 10 minutes or so before you give it any speed, so that you know you have pulled some good oil in and circulated it through the engine.

Let us know what happens.

 

[Solittle]

Re: *HELP* 2000 Johnson 90hp

The above is why I swapped out the VRO and went to pre-mix. I don't even think about all that stuff anymore.

 

[tjt1980]

Re: *HELP* 2000 Johnson 90hp

Hey tjt.....The cream colored "goo" sounds a lot to me like water intrusion, when water mixes with oil it looks like a milkshake, especially 2 stroke oil.

It will take a while for it to separate out, so since it was on the bottom I'd say it was starting to. And the fact that it was in the sock, just means you sucked some up.

I don't know for sure, but I think that the sensor will sense how the pump is pulsing and a thinned out oil or water would not have as much resistance, hense faster pulses. That may not be right though, but I know the "No Fuel" warning senses fuel flow somehow also.

I would say that is a very good starting point to your problem. Don't try to save the oil that's in there, it's all been contaminated, and will not mix with the fuel corrrectly in the OMS pump. A gallon of oil is anywhere from $6-$15, do you really want to risk your powerhead for $15-$25 worth of oil??

After you dump that oil out, clean the resevoir and as was mentioned by noelm, clean it out good and re-fill, get a new sock while your at it, and then take the main oil line off of the OMS pump and pump the primer until good clean fresh oil comes out. I've had to do this before and have had all kinds of milky crap come out and some straight water.

I had a friend who ruined a powerhead on a brand new Johnson 150 because he got water in his resevoir and sucked it up. It was do to the placement of the resevoir in the bilge and a defect on a washdown pump that would leak water right into the resevoir. He got lucky and the boat manufacturer replaced his powerhead, but I remember pumping his oil primer and seeing a lot of "goo" come out.

Where is your resevoir located, is there anything around it that could have gotten water in it? Even if there isn't, make sure you get that cap back on tight and look to see if there is any other way water could have gotten in.

Once you run it again, I would let it idle for about 10 minutes or so before you give it any speed, so that you know you have pulled some good oil in and circulated it through the engine.

Let us know what happens.

The reservoir is located under the rear seats. There are large circles cut out of the fiber class where the seat cushions mount and there is a gap between the cushion and mounting points. Therefore, there is definite potential for water to drip on top of the reservoir. However, the seals are good on all the reservoir openings.

The guy before me may have done something to let water in. I've only had the boat for a month and have had it on the water only a few times. You can imagine how I felt having this happen the first time I had my new boat on the water.

All of this is great advice. I'm gonna pick up a new sock and some oil tomorrow and complete the job. If the weather holds out, i'll put her on the water this weekend and see if the problem is fixed. How much damage do you think could be done to the system as a result of this happeneing?

 

[tjt1980]

Re: *HELP* 2000 Johnson 90hp

Well, that didn't work.

I completely disassembled the the OMS system from where it connects to the pump all the way back to the reservoir. I cleaned everything, replaced the filter, put in fresh oil, purged the system and headed for the lake. I was pretty excited for the first hour or so. No signs of the problem. However, on my way back to the loading ramp, it started again, and did it 3 times within about a 5 minute span. Ironically, it happened in the same exact spot on the lake as it did last time. I don't know what to do now. I can't afford a new pump so i'm leaning towards pre-mixxing. What do you guys think?

 

[Seasport]

Re: *HELP* 2000 Johnson 90hp

Could be a faulty sensor or pump. Hard to say. Check out this link for a great description of the VRO/OMS pump.

http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/VRO.html

Might be wise to run on premix until you can sort out the problem.

 

[tjt1980]

Re: *HELP* 2000 Johnson 90hp

What do you think Cricket?

I think i'm gonna go to premix. Check out this thread.

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=209078

 

[yamamarinetech40]

Re: *HELP* 2000 Johnson 90hp

If you're too lazy to clean out the accumulated water goo from your oil tank and too cheap to replace the oil, then yes you should run pre-mix....but who will mix it for you?

 

[tjt1980]

Re: *HELP* 2000 Johnson 90hp

If you're too lazy to clean out the accumulated water goo from your oil tank and too cheap to replace the oil, then yes you should run pre-mix....but who will mix it for you?

Did you not read what i wrote above? I already did all that. If i didn't know any better, i'd think you were being an ***.

 

[offshore100]

Re: *HELP* 2000 Johnson 90hp

Hi tjt, Yammieheads can be sooooo annoying.

I think the key thing to keep in mind here is that your oil level is declining, that's a good thing. Warning horns are notorious for false alarms.
As to damage (which, if oil is being consumed, is unlikely): check your spark plugs, they should be a straw or wheat colour. If very white, then I'd start worrying, that indicates overeheat brought on by lack of lube. Good luck!