Health Insurance/Extortion

tommays

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Re: Health Insurance/Extortion

In Ny the only thing close to cheep is Healthy NY which cost about 339 a month and is very good about doctors and such BUT has a 4K per year drug cap

So if you get sick and need a costly drug your SOL

My younger brother lives in lower deleware and its even worse

Right now my work policy has a 4K out of pocket :(

BUT at 85 per week VS the old one of 250 per WEEK it works out better
 

skargo

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Re: Health Insurance/Extortion

Curious skargo. Is that a state run high risk pool, or a private insurance policy for high risk patients?

Here in Wisconsin, companies that sell insurance in the state, are required to pay into a fund, which is used cover people like yourself. My cousin had cancer in her late 20's, while she was uninsured. Through the program, she was able to purchase insurance for I believe 125% of what a healthy person could buy the same policy. Not exactly cheap, but affordable compared to paying for the treatments, kidney transplant, liver transplant, marrow transplant, hip replacements, and everything else they did to her.

Wisconsin got this right. Curious if other states have similar programs?

It is a state run program. I did some more research late last night and it seems like the coverage is much more reasonable for the state fund now, than it was last time I checked. I may be able to get insurance after all.
 

hostage

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1,291
Re: Health Insurance/Extortion

In Ny the only thing close to cheep is Healthy NY which cost about 339 a month and is very good about doctors and such BUT has a 4K per year drug cap

So if you get sick and need a costly drug your SOL

My younger brother lives in lower deleware and its even worse

Right now my work policy has a 4K out of pocket :(

BUT at 85 per week VS the old one of 250 per WEEK it works out better

Good news, law eliminated drug cap. I learned that at the open enrollment that I was told to go to by the broker, but they neglected to inform me that I can not switch my plan.

I do have good news, my g/f has insurance w/ her company she works for. It costs her $36/month for just herself, but goes up to $266 for coverage + 1. This is a bit cheaper than my existing plan, I need to know more about what hers offers, but I guess it still is about $200 cheaper than what my plan current plan will cost next year. I wonder if I could even qualify for her insurance. Now my only concern is she wants to go back to college next year to get her masters, how would we be able to obtain affordable insurance for both of ourselves?

-Hostage
 

Beefer

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Re: Health Insurance/Extortion

From your post, it sounds like you're single with no kids. At 29, in good health, I honestly would take the gamble against having insurance. At $6k/year, that's a huge chunk of change, and probably a considerable percentage of your annual income. If you have a wife and kid(s), then it may be something to consider, but I agree with your dad.
 

salty87

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Aug 12, 2003
Messages
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Re: Health Insurance/Extortion

i was between jobs for a little bit and didn't want to be totally without coverage. went with assurant insurance, high deductible...catastrophic coverage essentially. coverage didn't kick in until $2500 if i recall. i would have paid the small stuff and in case something big ever happened i had coverage. the premium was only $70 a month or so. might be worth looking into.
 

PGFISHER

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Re: Health Insurance/Extortion

I realize the fact that insurance is necessary; but I feel like I'm betting against myself. The insurance company is betting that I won't get sick; and I'm betting not only that I'll get sick, but sick enough to overcome the premiums
 

jay_merrill

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Re: Health Insurance/Extortion

Since I have managed benefits packages for employees, I'll offer a couple of thoughts.

First, buying individual insurance has been expensive for a long time. Like any health insurance, if you are very young, male and have no pre-existing conditions of any significance, you are among the least expensive to insure. A young female under the same situation will be more expensive, but not as much as older people, especially those with health issues. Basically, this is a "plumbing issue" - females are simply more complicated in terms of reproductive organs and they cost more to treat, even in terms of routine health care.

As you get older, whether your are covered under individual insurance or a group plan (unless there are enough employees to qualify for a composite rating), premiums go up. If there are known health issues, they can go way up. If you are forced into the individual market with serious issues like heart desease and/or diabetes, you can become uninsurable for anything other than high deductable, insurance with all sorts of limitations on coverage and lifetime limits. This is not new. It has been going on for many years.

For example, in my state, a person in his/her 40s - 50s with a serious health concern and who has been forced into the individual market, can find him/herself faced with buying insurance from a state run high risk pool. This pool typically has an annual deductable of $5,000 and monthly premiums of $600 for such a person. The monthly premiums are paid all 12 months of the year, whether the deductable is exhausted or not.

For someone with serious health issues, meds and routine visits, tests, etc. can and usually do, use up the entire deductable. That means that the individual cost for the insured, is $12,200 per year.

My advice to the OP, is to find a high deductable plan, that has good coverage beyond the deductable. That means that once the deductable is satisfied, the plan will cover the vast majority of remaining costs and will have a high limitation on lifetime costs. The reason for doing this, is because even young people can become unexpectedly ill and the cost of medical care has become completely ridiculous. At least by getting this kind of coverage, premiums can be held to a reasonable level and there is still a safety net, should something happen.

One further bit of advice though - be very careful in the purchase decision. There are many insurance companies selling high deductable insurance that is complete garbage. They look good at first glance and seem to be very reasonably priced, but when you look into what they cover (and more importantly, what they don't), they aren't worth a dime.



???
 

Fly Rod

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Messages
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Re: Health Insurance/Extortion

Since I have managed benefits packages for employees, I'll offer a couple of thoughts.

First, buying individual insurance has been expensive for a long time. Like any health insurance, if you are very young, male and have no pre-existing conditions of any significance, you are among the least expensive to insure. A young female under the same situation will be more expensive, but not as much as older people, especially those with health issues. Basically, this is a "plumbing issue" - females are simply more complicated in terms of reproductive organs and they cost more to treat, even in terms of routine health care.

As you get older, whether your are covered under individual insurance or a group plan (unless there are enough employees to qualify for a composite rating), premiums go up. If there are known health issues, they can go way up. If you are forced into the individual market with serious issues like heart desease and/or diabetes, you can become uninsurable for anything other than high deductable, insurance with all sorts of limitations on coverage and lifetime limits. This is not new. It has been going on for many years.

For example, in my state, a person in his/her 40s - 50s with a serious health concern and who has been forced into the individual market, can find him/herself faced with buying insurance from a state run high risk pool. This pool typically has an annual deductable of $5,000 and monthly premiums of $600 for such a person. The monthly premiums are paid all 12 months of the year, whether the deductable is exhausted or not.

For someone with serious health issues, meds and routine visits, tests, etc. can and usually do, use up the entire deductable. That means that the individual cost for the insured, is $12,200 per year. ???


From reading some of these blogs insurance premiums very from state to state, you read a few from New York, it seems they do not get a lot of coverage for what they pay.

My health issue is covered in your last paragraph, I must be in that 12,000 bracket since it cost 24,000 a year for me and the wife, we each have a 1,000 deductable, she has no health issues. I have pulmonary hypertension since 2007, in a out patient critical care unit, see my specialist every three months or sooner, have a kat-scan every third visit, heart catherter once a year and my meds are exspensive, my deductable is used up on my first visit to the hospital. Had blue cross/blue shield switched provider when we went to work for another company. Had no problem switching because of my pre condition. For the service provided me I do not feel that my 1,000 deductable is high.
 

Jeep Man

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Re: Health Insurance/Extortion

Wow.... I think I'll stay north of the border. A number of years ago I broke my back in a fall. 5 years later my wife was critically injured in a car accident. Financially, we didn't skip a beat. We didn't pay a dime out of pocket. Granted, we pay a bit more in taxes, but then again, we pay for ALL the necessary services for this country with one tenth the population of the US. I don't know how I would manage paying those kind of rates.
 

rbh

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Re: Health Insurance/Extortion

Wow.... I think I'll stay north of the border. A number of years ago I broke my back in a fall. 5 years later my wife was critically injured in a car accident. Financially, we didn't skip a beat. We didn't pay a dime out of pocket. Granted, we pay a bit more in taxes, but then again, we pay for ALL the necessary services for this country with one tenth the population of the US. I don't know how I would manage paying those kind of rates.

With you on this one.
I believe there are only a few things that need to stay in the hands of the public, primary education grades 1-12 and heath and welfare to name a couple.
The private sector can have anything that does not touch on the well being of a population.
 

skargo

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Re: Health Insurance/Extortion

With you on this one.
I believe there are only a few things that need to stay in the hands of the public, primary education grades 1-12 and heath and welfare to name a couple.
The private sector can have anything that does not touch on the well being of a population.
HUH, what a contradictory statement. :confused:
 

skargo

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Re: Health Insurance/Extortion

BTW, here is an excellent article comparing Canada and the US health systems, I will stay right here thank you very much!

http://healthblog.ncpa.org/does-socialism-work-debunking-the-myths/

David Himmelstein and his wife Steffie Woolhandler are associate professors at Harvard Medical School. Together they are a one-couple team, promoting Canadian national health insurance in the Unites States. They provide the intellectual leadership for the Physicians for a National Health Program. They are about the only academics around whose scholarship routinely gives aid and comfort to the advocates of socialized medicine, unless you count the Commonwealth Fund. They are pleasant (at least to me); they are dedicated; and they are wrong.

I first debated David on a college campus about 15 years ago. My most recent debate with them is reprinted in Annals of Thoracic Surgery. In between the two debates I had an epiphany. I discovered that the worst features of the Canadian system are not the differences with our own system, but the similarities.

But first things first. Since our last debate, new information has become available that helps debunk three widely touted myths.

The Myth of Low Administrative Costs. In a series of articles, all published in medical journals, Himmelstein and Woolhandler (H&W) claim that the administrative costs of the Canadian system are much lower than our own ? so much so that we could insure the uninsured through administrative savings alone. However, H&W are not economists. They count the cost of private insurance premium collection (e.g. advertising, agents? fees, etc.) but they ignore the cost of tax collection to pay for public insurance.

Economic studies show the social cost of collecting taxes is very high. Using the most conservative of these estimates, Ben Zycher has shown that the excess burden of a universal Medicare program would be twice as high as the administrative costs of universal private coverage.

The Myth of High Quality. H&W say that Canadian life expectancy is two years longer than ours, implying that the health care systems of the two countries have something to do with that result. Yet as pointed out in a previous Alert, doctors don?t control our overeating, overdrinking, etc. Where doctors do make a difference, the comparison does not favor Canada. In an NBER study, David and June O?Neill draw on a large US/Canadian patient survey to show that:

* The percent of middle-aged Canadian women who have never had a mammogram is double the US rate.
* The percent of Canadian women who have never had a pap smear is triple the US rate.
* More than 8 in 10 Canadian males have never had a PSA test, compared with less than half of US males.
* More than 9 in 10 Canadians have never had a colonoscopy, compared with 7 in 10 in the US.

These differences in screening may explain why US cancer patients do better than their Canadian counterparts. For example:

* The mortality rate for breast cancer is 25% higher in Canada.
* The mortality rate for prostate cancer is 18% higher in Canada.
* The mortality rate for colorectal cancer among Canadian men and women is about 13% higher than in the US.

Amazingly, there are quite a few people in both countries who are not being treated for conditions that clearly require a doctor?s attention. However:

* Among senior citizens, the fraction of Canadians with asthma, hypertension, and diabetes who are not getting care is twice the rate in the US.
* The fraction of Canadian seniors with coronary heart disease who are not being treated is nearly three times the US rate.

Apparently, putting everyone in (Canadian) Medicare leads to worse results than having only some people in (US) Medicare ? ensconced in an otherwise private system.

The Myth of Equal Access. The most common argument for national health insurance is that it will give rich and poor alike the same access to health care. Surprisingly, there is no evidence of that outcome. Indeed, national health insurance in Canada may have created more inequality than otherwise would have existed. (Similar results have been reported for Britain.) The O?Neill?s study shows that:

* Both in Canada and in the US health outcomes correlate with income; low-income people are more likely to be in poor health and less likely to be in good health than those with higher incomes.
* However, there is apparently more inequality in Canada; among the nonelderly white population of both countries, low-income Canadians are 22% more likely to be in poor health than their American counterparts.


References are listed below.

Read them and weep.

For Ben Zycher?s study of administrative costs, go to http://www.manhattan-institute.org/pdf/mpr_05.pdf

Even though it?s several years old, the best overall critique of national health insurance is still my own Lives at Risk, written with Gerry Musgrave and Devon Herrick. Go to http://www.ncpa.org/shop/index.php?..._id=78&zenid=15e142641d7665753362b89df7a7c102
 

rbh

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Re: Health Insurance/Extortion

HUH, what a contradictory statement. :confused:

:confused: Why is that contradictory????
I am not a social economist, But I did stay at a holiday inn express last night :D

I think it all boils down to Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs (Econ 101 from years ago). In order for a society to be strong and healthy, it needs to have the basic needs of the population met - those being food and shelter, health, and education.
 

skargo

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Re: Health Insurance/Extortion

:confused: Why is that contradictory????
I am not a social economist, But I did stay at a holiday inn express last night :D

I think it all boils down to Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs (Econ 101 from years ago). In order for a society to be strong and healthy, it needs to have the basic needs of the population met - those being food and shelter, health, and education.

How is it NOT contradictory?

With you on this one.
I believe there are only a few things that need to stay in the hands of the public, primary education grades 1-12 and heath and welfare to name a couple.
The private sector can have anything that does not touch on the well being of a population.
Aren't private sector and public the same thing? Maybe I'm wrong? :confused:
 

rbh

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Re: Health Insurance/Extortion

Private is a company doing business, public is goverment funded or initiated.

"Thing are never perfect anywhere" including here, here we have 35 million people +- spread across this country, pacific to atlantic and up to the arctic ocean and things do get streched thin at times in areas, as well we do send people to the states for certain procedures due to lack of beds or specialty procedures required.
No one is saying you do not have a great medical facilities, it is just to bad not everyone can use it though.


I think the question is though how much profit should be made pre and post off of your pain and suffering.
(the middle man should be you the people)
 

Fly Rod

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Re: Health Insurance/Extortion

The poor and non U S citizens in this country do not go with out healthcare, they are not turned away. If you take all the hospitals in this country they give out billions of free medical, as always they make out better then the middle class. Middle class that had insurance and for what ever reason lose their medical benefit do not qualify because their income does not fall below the minimum requirement for free medical.
 

Capt'n Chris

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May 21, 2009
Messages
461
Re: Health Insurance/Extortion

Right now I am kind of stuck in a bad place with health insurance. First problem is I live in NY State, where insurance is 3 or 4 times higher than other states. Secondly my employer doesn't have a health insurance program for me, I am a contractor. I am 29, in good health, have little to no medical expenses, both my old man and sister are doctors, so if I have a problem I call them or send them a photo.

Well the company I work for use to do business with a health insurance broker that decided to only do business with sole proprietors. At first the insurance wasn't bad, then they raised the monthly premium by 50% last year and then are going to raise it an additional $75/month next year. Other than the premium the plan isn't bad, but it just gets my goat that I put a lot more into the bucket than I could ever see taking out. If I was a sole proprietor, I could switch to a $185 high deductible plan that would save me lots of money, but now I am stuck paying about $450/month for something I don't use?

My dad a strong supporter of having insurance changed his opinion when I told him the premium. Instead of lecturing me about getting insurance, he actually suggested that I could even put $450 away in an account every month to protect me in case of an emergency. I would rather worry about having no insurance, then be pissed off at the world every time I sent a check to pay for the premium. I hate that pissed at the world feeling. We are talking about $6,000/year and on top of that all the taxed services that I pay for that I do not qualify for.

Does anyone have any suggestions on what to do? I heard there are co-ops etc. Almost every insurance company I spoke to says they don't sell insurance to individuals and the one that did wanted to charge me $1000/month.

Also are they going to really charged me a fee, if I don't have insurance?

I really need to move back down to Texas.

-Hostage

Come on back to Texas! My wife and I have great health coverage provided courtesy of her fully self insured employer of 20+thousand. Thank you ERISA. While we are blessed at having to pay our share of only $1000/m, we are only out of pocket an additional $5,000 in a year if we both were to become ill, 1/2 of that already spent on a tummy ache in the past 2 months...only 2 months into the new plan year when her deductible and copay were met then also. Unfortunately, the tummy ache has not been isolated, but Drs. have not exhausted all testing (25K thus far) available to them, nor will they until they are out of resources before resorting to a more expensive procedure. Do you suppose Texas might produce as much medical cynicism as NY or any other state for that matter? Texas leads the nation in uninsured by the way.
 

bigdee

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Jul 27, 2006
Messages
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Re: Health Insurance/Extortion

The poor and non U S citizens in this country do not go with out healthcare, they are not turned away. If you take all the hospitals in this country they give out billions of free medical, as always they make out better then the middle class. Middle class that had insurance and for what ever reason lose their medical benefit do not qualify because their income does not fall below the minimum requirement for free medical.

Thank you,thank you for a factual and TRUE statement.....the poor and non-US citizens have the best (and free) medical care in the world...period.
 

JustJason

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Aug 27, 2007
Messages
5,320
Re: Health Insurance/Extortion

The problem with health care insurance is it almost assumes everybody is rich/well to do, when in fact, many of us are not. Most of us are some form of middle class.

For the rich, medical bills are a drop in the bucket.
For the middle class, medical bills can break the bank, and leave one bankrupt. So what's the point if you need to go to the hospital. Better to die than to live with a mountain of debt over your head.
If your poor, medical care is free.

I offer you 2 different scenarios.
Kate lost her job 6 months ago through no fault of her own. She get's unemployment, 440 a week. She pays into cobra to keep her health insurnance, 460 a month. She still has deductables and copays up the yingyang.

I am middle class, but paper poor, very very poor on paper. I could qualify for welfare and food stamps, but I don't take them, I don't need them.
However, health ins up here for a single payer is 700-1000 a month. That is a tough pill to swallow. If I was above boards and kept myself middle class on paper, and also have to pay for insurance, then I would just flat out be poor, I wouldn't be able to do it. So I decide to keep myself paper poor. I get free health insurance from the state. I get to go to the same hospitals as the rich folks. Med's are 3 dollar co-pay, for anything.

So it costs Kate 1/4 her monthly unemployment in NH, plus copays for everything. It cost me nothing, its free, only copay I have are meds, 3 bucks a script. You guys do the math.
The biggest problem in my state is that the state fines you if you do not pay for insurance. But if you can prove you are paper poor, they pay it for you.

If I was rich this wouldn't be a big a deal, but I am not so it is a big deal. Percentage wise to my pay, if I had to pay it all, it is way to expensive and overpriced. But to a rich person, their percentage of health insurance costs is very little when compared to their wealth.
 

roscoe

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
21,746
Re: Health Insurance/Extortion

NOTHING is free Jason, and the ramifications and consequences of the program in your fine state are just now coming to light and fruition.

Get back to us in 5 or 10 years with an update.
 
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