Head gasket? Cracked head?

[Zink357]

I guess I may not have winterized properly. Got boat out of storage and motor was locked up. Pulled the plugs and there was brown liquid coming out of 2 cylinders. (See pic) Obviously water got in there somehow. I poured alcohol in all 6 cylinders and let it sit overnight. In the morning it was free and I could turn the engine over. What is my next step? I don’t want to just change the oil and try to start it if water can still get into the cylinders and risk throwing a rod bearing or something. Do I need to pull the heads and check for cracks or what else?? Could it be just a head gasket? Could water get in there some other way over the winter and there’s nothing wrong with it?Could it be something else? Any help is appreciated!

 

[Zink357]

It is a 2010 4.3GL Volvo Penta btw.

 

[tpenfield]

Nice going . . . See what the motor oil looks like.

A cylinder leak test could indicate (or not) if it is a head gasket . . or even a cracked cylinder head. Otherwise a cooling system pressure test would indicate cracked block, head, or manifold.

It would be best to do testing before taking anything apart.

 

[Zink357]

How do I do those tests? Something I can do myself?

Nice going . . . See what the motor oil looks like.

A cylinder leak test could indicate (or not) if it is a head gasket . . or even a cracked cylinder head. Otherwise a cooling system pressure test would indicate cracked block, head, or manifold.

It would be best to do testing before taking anything apart.

How do I do those tests? Something I can do myself?

 

[BRICH1260]

You might remove all spark plugs and do a quick compression test of all cylinders. good compression might rule out cylinder damage, indicating its in the upper portion of the engine. Did you remember to drain the intake manifold, a separate plug on the V6`s.

 

[Zink357]

You might remove all spark plugs and do a quick compression test of all cylinders. good compression might rule out cylinder damage, indicating its in the upper portion of the engine. Did you remember to drain the intake manifold, a separate plug on the V6`s.

The only thing I did to winterize it was pull the hoses to drain all the water and then reconnected the hoses and put antifreeze thru it. I didn’t drain anything else. I’m now learning there are several things that need to be drained that I had no idea of.

 

[Bondo]

I didn’t drain anything else. I’m now learning there are several things that need to be drained that I had no idea of.

Ayuh,..... The 2 most important are the 2 block drains, one each side, down just above the oil pan, 'bout mid-way,....

There's a winterization thread in Don's Adults Only Section, found at the top of the I/O forums, or in my signature,......

 

[Scott Danforth]

4.3's also have the drain plug on the thermostat housing

manifolds need to have the plugs pulled

raw water pump needs to have cover pulled. also a good idea to pull the impeller for winter

the fact that brown goo came out the cylinders indicates that water and rust were in the combustion chamber. this would not have come from the intake if it was leaking, however most likely from the exhaust manifolds or the cylinder heads themselves

pressure test, leak down test, and most likely, you will be pulling the motor

 

[Zink357]

4.3's also have the drain plug on the thermostat housing

manifolds need to have the plugs pulled

raw water pump needs to have cover pulled. also a good idea to pull the impeller for winter

the fact that brown goo came out the cylinders indicates that water and rust were in the combustion chamber. this would not have come from the intake if it was leaking, however most likely from the exhaust manifolds or the cylinder heads themselves

pressure test, leak down test, and most likely, you will be pulling the motor

So I dug into this a little bit today and I remember exactly what I did to winterize. I pulled the hoses and also pulled the exhaust manifold drains as well as the block drains. Then I filled the cooling system with antifreeze. I did not know there was an intake drain so that never got pulled. I pulled the exhaust and block drains today and all the antifreeze drained out so it was still in there.
I removed one of the exhaust manifolds and it looks fine. The gasket is like brand new still as well. I removed the valve cover and there was some water in there. See pics. Is that normal? I don’t want to pull the intake and heads off if I don’t have to. Never done that before.
Is it possible that the antifreeze got into the combustion chamber somehow from sitting so long? Through exhaust valve or something? Or do I need to pull the heads and get them checked for cracks no matter what to be sure? With nothing but antifreeze in the system I don’t understand how anything would have froze and cracked except the intake that never got drained......???

 

[Zink357]

There’s water droplets on the lifters and there’s water sitting where the red arrows are pointing. It’s probably antifreeze and not water but it’s definitely not oil.

 

[Zink357]

Here’s the manifold gasket. The middle cylinder is the one that had water in it. Looks darker around the bottom half than the other two do.
Also, I’m wondering if the water/antifreeze under the valve covers isn’t from me cranking the engine after putting rubbing alcohol in there. I had the plugs out and cranked it over for a few seconds to see how much gunk came out. That could be why the lifters are wet right?

 

[Scott Danforth]

before you pull anything apart. pressure test the cooling system, do a compression test as well as a leak down test.

without the diagnosing of those 3 tests, you are looking for a needle in a stack of needles.

 

[Zink357]

before you pull anything apart. pressure test the cooling system, do a compression test as well as a leak down test.

without the diagnosing of those 3 tests, you are looking for a needle in a stack of needles.

What is a leak down test

 

[Lou C]

I agree with doing the air pressure test at least because that the way you will be able to find out how the water got in the cyls. And that looks like rusty water not antifreeze. Based on how you said you winterized (drain and back fill), the only ways I can imagine that water got in the cyls
1) did water leak into the engine compartment and run into the carb or throttle body?
2) maybe some of the water didn’t drain and was left in one of the water jackets and there was not enough AF to prevent a freeze up. Did you poke the drain plug holes to make sure they were not closed with rust flakes? Did you disconnect the bottom end of the big hose at the front circulation pump? The engine based on my experience with an older version holds quite a bit of water, between 3-4 gallons.

 

[Zink357]

I agree with doing the air pressure test at least because that the way you will be able to find out how the water got in the cyls. And that looks like rusty water not antifreeze. Based on how you said you winterized (drain and back fill), the only ways I can imagine that water got in the cyls
1) did water leak into the engine compartment and run into the carb or throttle body?
2) maybe some of the water didn’t drain and was left in one of the water jackets and there was not enough AF to prevent a freeze up. Did you poke the drain plug holes to make sure they were not closed with rust flakes? Did you disconnect the bottom end of the big hose at the front circulation pump? The engine based on my experience with an older version holds quite a bit of water, between 3-4 gallons.

There’s zero chance that water leaked into the engine from outside. I did poke the drain holes and make sure all the water was out. Except for intake drain which I didn’t know had a drain. Pulled the hoses off the water pump at the bottom as well. I put 3 gallons of antifreeze in it. Just kept putting more in until everything coming out war pure pink antifreeze.
The one thing I think I did wrong is I didn’t pull the drain plugs after putting the antifreeze in so the antifreeze sat in the engine all winter. That shouldn’t matter should it? This is why I’m mind blown how water got in.

 

[Senior B]

A cracked intake manifold would cause what you're seeing as would a boat left completely open in the elements allowing enough water down the carb into the intake as everything else mentioned (head gaskets cracks in the block/ heads ect. Do you have water in your oil? If this was properly drained as you say except for the intake manifold, you make be lucky. What does your dip stick show? Oil floats on top and if the craft has sat for a while, it will all separate and may look fine but if you checked it at the end of the season before storage and it was fine level wise but some how has now mysteriously gained a quart or so on the stick then that tells a story.

 

[Senior B]

Looking at your picture with the wet exhaust in the middle, a bad riser gasket can do the same. you mentioned that antifreeze was still in the manifold and that it was drained prior to refilling so you're probably ok there.

 

[Lou C]

If the water left in the intake froze & cracked the intake and then leaked out during a thaw that water would go right into the cam valley under the intake manifold not into the cyls. Some water would wind up in the motor oil because of this but not in the cyls. Water gets in the cyls from a cracked cyl head blown HG or cracked block.

 

[Zink357]

Hard for me to tell anything by the oil since I put 20+ ounces of alcohol in the cylinders to free it up.

 

[Zink357]

Well I guess there’s my answer... am I best to just replace the whole engine and keep my top end if the heads and manifolds aren’t cracked? Anyone know the best place to find a replacement block or whole engine? What’s my best play here?