Grease Seal to Spindle Fit

[Weirthit]

I recently replaced a warped rotary hub on my tandem axle trailer. Went ahead and replaced the bearings since the cups were pre-installed in the hub, and replaced the grease seal. On the first tow, all of the grease in the bearing buddy blew out of the new rear seal. The seal I.D. is 1.686" and the spindle diameter where the sleeve rides is 1.677 (measured with dial calipers) so no surprise is leaks.
I found a grease seal with an I.D. of 1.62", at least 0.050" smaller than the spindle diameter where the sleeve rides.
Is 0.050" interference between the grease seal and spindle too much? I would hate to destroy the seal surface.
Thanks for any feedback,
Brian

 

[bruceb58]

what is the seal number you are using that is too big?

You probably need a 470460, assuming the outer diameter is standard.. That was the seal I used for my axle spindle which is the same size as yours. That number is the same for bot Timken and National.

I am guessing you are currently using a 473336 which is too big,

 

[dingbat]

As an alternative, I switched over to a 16735.

The 16735 has a rubber cased, one piece seal designed for power transmission applications, ie. gearboxes, motors, speed reducers, etc.

Overkill for grease filled hubs, but the rubber case helps with any misalignment issues and allows them to be removed and reused after bearing inspection, if desired.

 

[Weirthit]

what is the seal number you are using that is too big?

You probably need a 470460, assuming the outer diameter is standard.. That was the seal I used for my axle spindle which is the same size as yours. That number is the same for bot Timken and National.

I am guessing you are currently using a 473336 which is too big,

Thank you for the response.

The seal that was leaking is a 168255TB. Same as 470460 per the Timken Federal Seal Catalog.
I also checked the Timken Federal Seal Catalog and the 470460 is for a 1.687" shaft, 0.010" larger than the seal area on my spindle which is 1.677".
I am wondering if the seal with a 1.62" ID is too tight for a 1.677" OD seal area.
Also wondering if I have a mis-machined spindle. Wouldn't be the first thing wrong with this VM Trailer.

 

[Mike_BB]

I recently replaced a warped rotary hub on my tandem axle trailer. Went ahead and replaced the bearings since the cups were pre-installed in the hub, and replaced the grease seal. On the first tow, all of the grease in the bearing buddy blew out of the new rear seal. The seal I.D. is 1.686" and the spindle diameter where the sleeve rides is 1.677 (measured with dial calipers) so no surprise is leaks.
I found a grease seal with an I.D. of 1.62", at least 0.050" smaller than the spindle diameter where the sleeve rides.
Is 0.050" interference between the grease seal and spindle too much? I would hate to destroy the seal surface.
Thanks for any feedback,
Brian

That's too much interference. You'll wreck the seal or spindle. Your spindle's seal surface is probably worn. Install a Speedi-Sleeve to bring it back to spec, then use the correct 1.677" ID seal. Also, check you're not pumping too much grease into the Bearing Buddy.

 

[bakerjw]

Also, check you're not pumping too much grease into the Bearing Buddy.

IMHO Bearing Buddies are bad news. Grease goes in but never gets to the bearing by the seal.

I am lucky in that my Rockwell axle has a grease zerk at the end of the spindle. The grease goes through the spindle and enters the internal cavity in front of the seal. When you pump in grease, you spin the wheel and watch grease get pushed back out to the front. It also packs the bearings fully. I swapped out my old axle for one of them and never looked back.

 

[bruceb58]

IMHO Bearing Buddies are bad news. Grease goes in but never gets to the bearing by the seal.

I am lucky in that my Rockwell axle has a grease zerk at the end of the spindle. The grease goes through the spindle and enters the internal cavity in front of the seal. When you pump in grease, you spin the wheel and watch grease get pushed back out to the front. It also packs the bearings fully. I swapped out my old axle for one of them and never looked back.

The whole purpose of a bearing buddy is to keep the hub slightly pressurized. You properly pack the bearings by hand to get the grease into the bearings.

You don't use the axles with the zerks to grease the bearings. You hand pack them.

 

[jlh3rd]

"You don't use the axles with the zerks to grease the bearings. You hand pack them."

well, yes you do if you have that type of axle.
My '06 Karavan tandem has that type of axle and it does a great job of keeping my bearings packed. My hubs get pulled every year for other maintenance and the bearings are well packed.

 

[bruceb58]

"You don't use the axles with the zerks to grease the bearings. You hand pack them."

well, yes you do if you have that type of axle.
My '06 Karavan tandem has that type of axle and it does a great job of keeping my bearings packed. My hubs get pulled every year for other maintenance and the bearings are well packed.

well no...you don't. Even Dexter, in their manual, says to hand pack the bearings.

If you hand packed the bearings initially and then used the Laz-Lube method with the zerk, of course they will still appear packed since that is what you did initially.

 

[jlh3rd]

I didn't feel the need to mention that there is a first time where they are hand packed.
Subsequently, you don't need to.
Don't feel like arguing today. My Karavan's is great, the new grease enters the rear bearing travels to the front bearing and then out. As long as the rear seal is good and you don't use a powered grease gun, everything works as it should.

 

[bruceb58]

I didn't feel the need to mention that there is a first time where they are hand packed.
Subsequently, you don't need to.
Don't feel like arguing today. My Karavan's is great, the new grease enters the rear bearing travels to the front bearing and then out. As long as the rear seal is good and you don't use a powered grease gun, everything works as it should.

LOL...when I pull my bearings, I clean them...look for pitting and damage...repack them.

I have seen the damage that using the LAZ-Lube system does. VERY easy to blow a rear seal and if you have drum brakes, you will have no idea.

Kinda like this guy did...used LAZ-Lube on a warm day, spun the wheel...blew out the seal. This trailer was only a year old.

 

[jlh3rd]

if you make more than a couple of pumps and the grease is not moving, then you should begin to suspect a problem such as that, if you have been maintaining it properly. Just because something is a year old doesn't mean it can't be defective or an improper procedure isn't used. I've got an '04 tandem, purchased in 2017, maintained properly, and have a brain. I have not had an issue. Was that trailer checked by that guy after he bought it? Things happen however.