GOP v Estate Tax

SoulWinner · Apr 20, 2005

Re: GOP v Estate Tax

PW, See brother, we as intelligent humans use these things called "words" in order to communicate thoughts. Different words mean different things, but all words have MEANING. For example, a man that marries two or more wives is a "bigamist." A man that forces himself on unwilling sex partners is called a "rapist." And lastly, someone who thinks the George Bush tax cuts are a tax break for the wealthy, someone who thinks higher taxes and government programs are the answer to problems with education, health care, poverty et al, is a communists/Marxist/Stalinist etc. The very foundation for property tax is unconstitutional. Private property ownership is one of the cornerstones of America. How the heck can any governing body justify levying a tax on something that you own lock, stock and barrel? Only a commie would think that property tax is a good idea. Then there is the death tax. All your life you work, and you are taxed on every dime you make. Then when you spend the money to buy goods or services you are taxed again. Then when you die, all the money and goods that you leave are taxed again!?!?!?!?! If that sounds good to you, move to Cuba. I have been called a conservative, it isn't a label, it is a descriptive word that fits. Get educated so that you know what you are and have the stones to own it.

RubberFrog · Apr 20, 2005

Re: GOP v Estate Tax

As a conservative leaning independent, and as a christian, I have to ask this to SoulWinner: How many souls are you winning with your sarcastic, hateful, name calling? In your last post you called people names, referred to them as uneducated, and told them to move to Cuba. This is why I don't have a fish on my car. This way I can still flip people off and not have every christian in the world judged based on my actions. Please stop. George

SoulWinner · Apr 20, 2005

Re: GOP v Estate Tax

How is callin a spade a spade name calling?

RubberFrog · Apr 20, 2005

Re: GOP v Estate Tax

Originally posted by SoulWinner: How is callin a spade a spade name calling?

If someone is unattractive and I call them ugly.... If someone has a low IQ and I call them stupid.... If someone has a weight problem and I call them fat.... But that really wasn't my point. I am neither agreeing nor disagreeing with your politics. I am just asking you to consider your delivery when you have a big, flashy, rotating cross and go by the name SoulWinner. It's nothing against you, you're probably a great guy! Just something to consider.

PW2 · Apr 20, 2005

Re: GOP v Estate Tax

I tend to agree with you, J/L, that it is a shame to see farms gobbled up by developers in the name of progress. Unfortunately it is the reality. And it is happening everywhere. And it is hard to convince governments of whatever party persuasion they are to tax a farm at one rate, when if put to other uses, might bring a value, and resulting revenue, of many times the value of the farm. I recall an area in Tukwila, WA in the Green River Valley--the most fertile ground you would ever want to see--where they brought in many thousand yards of fill, buried that beautiful topsoil, and built a huge industrial complex. And of course the city of Tukwila is realizing many more millions of dollars in tax reciepts than had they kept the farms intact. Like it or not, it is inevitable progress.

PW2 · Apr 20, 2005

Re: GOP v Estate Tax

Not to worry on my account, Rubber Frog. I rather enjoy the dialogue, and find it instructive. You get some like SW who don't know what to say and so resort name calling because it is easy and makes them feel good-- But you get others, like eeboater, that refer to things like "the failed social security system" that you begin to understand where the right is coming from. They have no interest in fixing Social Security--they want to screw it up so bad it cannot be fixed--and then say I told you so. It's a position that they can't publically endorse, of course, because they could no longer win elections. Or like dj, who refers to the "bogus" notion of the separation of church and state, and you begin to understand why it is vitally important who is appointed judges... I don't think they want conservative judges, I think what they really want are obedient judges to their specific agenda--which could attack the very core notion in this country of separation of power.. But it is again a notion that they have to sneak in the back door--they'd get thrown out if they tried to bring it in the front door...

Elmer Fudge · Apr 20, 2005

Re: GOP v Estate Tax

When the Dems are at the helm, the Reps yells about fiscal responsibility. When the Reps are at the helm, the Dems yells about fiscal responsibility. Both parties are full of hypocrites and immoral vampires, more commonly known as lawyers. Is it not about time to dump both the baby and the bath water?

johnson-liner · Apr 20, 2005

Re: GOP v Estate Tax

Oh you're definitely correct there...it is unfortunately the reality of today. I understand your point and why your calling it "progress", just as in your Tukwila example. That story just isn't progress in my eyes I guess. We need the development because we need more homes, we need more homes because the population is exploding, because the pop is exploding the development is good because it creates jobs....on and on it goes. What it comes down to is people having too many kids. Too many kids that will overpopulate even more and have a less ideal life than their parents did....and on and on. But who is anyone to tell me or you how many kids we can have? Over my dead body..I don't want that dicated to me. What it comes down to is people being irresponsible to the future generations by having too many kids. I don't have any now, but I will not have more than 2...just enough to replace me and mom. Unfortunately, sometimes I think I was born a century too late. I would still want to have my boat though, of course!

johnson-liner · Apr 20, 2005

Re: GOP v Estate Tax

Ditto to Poppet Valve....

DJ · Apr 20, 2005

Re: GOP v Estate Tax

PW2 wrote:

Or like dj, who refers to the "bogus" notion of the separation of church and state, and you begin to understand why it is vitally important who is appointed judges...

OK, PW2 SHOW ME where it is written in the constitution. Again, SHOW ME. You can't. Why? It's fiction. (meaning a lie)

I'd suggest those friends of yours need a better tax attorney.

OK an attorney is the answer? Please! Your answer to all that ails is a lawsuit? Give me solutions, not platitudes and trumped up has been ideas.

jtexas · Apr 20, 2005

Re: GOP v Estate Tax

Just the facts - 1. "separation of church and state" is not bogus - nor does it appear in the constitution. That's because it is a phrase coined as a convenient way to say "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." That's all it means. Some people misuse the phrase while others just accuse other people of misusing it. 2. The "family farm" problem is very real, and doesn't just affect farmers. The families of entrepeneurs who built up their family businesses over years of hard work find themselves having to sell controlling interests, or sell out completely or liquidate the business to pay estate taxes. Happens every day, to people you wouldn't think of as "rich." 3. Who wants Congress passing laws that requires us law-abiding citizens to hire lawyers just to keep us from handing over the family farm to the USTreasury? (ok, #3 isn't exactly a fact, but there you are.)

originally posted by PW2: ...They have no interest in fixing Social Security--they want to screw it up so bad it cannot be fixed--and then say I told you so....

Did you really mean to resort to using that kind of rhetoric? That's not the kind of reasoned logic we've come to expect from you.

jtexas · Apr 20, 2005

Re: GOP v Estate Tax

question for SW: why is a tax on property unconstitutional? From the reasons you gave, I'm thinking maybe you meant to say "unconscionable?" The government can justify levying a tax on the basis of a need for funds to carry out the business of governing. You can tax property, estates, income, sales, production, whatever, you got to feed the beast. Is one more or less fair than another? Depends on who you ask.

demsvmejm · Apr 20, 2005

Re: GOP v Estate Tax

Originally posted by poppet valve: When the Dems are at the helm, the Reps yells about fiscal responsibility. When the Reps are at the helm, the Dems yells about fiscal responsibility. Both parties are full of hypocrites and immoral vampires, more commonly known as lawyers. Is it not about time to dump both the baby and the bath water?

Finally a post with some truth and integrity!!!

demsvmejm · Apr 20, 2005

Re: GOP v Estate Tax

What we have hear is the RED party (wasn't the Communist party called the Red party too?), spewing epithets at eh rest of the world. We, the rest of the world, are too smart to be led around by the nose, we question the motives, we question the benefit/detriment of the governments actions. Baby bush and the rest of the red party don't want anyone to question, jus tto lay down and let the government have it's way. It's interesting that those in support of the administration can only attack prtions of the dissenting point of view, obscuring the real issues at hand. Hey the 'publicans are real good at spin. And the post suggesting the better tax attorney wasn't suggesting a lawsuit. He was suggesting an attorney who knows the tax laws, and the advantages certain tax structures have. My father has prepared tax returns and related forms for more years than I have been alive. He favors the current administration, but he also supports a flat tax, with exemptions for the cost of living. Not the cost of living well, the cost of existing. He also agrees that the wealthy typically don't pay an equal percentage to the rest of us workin' folk. For most of the decimated family interests due to the estate tax, better planning would usually eliminate the problem. And if the business or farms were truly viable, why wasn't a loan to pay the tax bill available? Oh, yeah better to whine and cry. i agree that the taxman has no heart and no patience, but until I see someone who has tried all the avenues and sound planning end up there, I won't shed a tear. And the entitlement to dad's hard earned business or grandma's long held homestead is just that, and "entitlement". And we all know the red party's position on entitlements, you don't have one. And SW, please elevate yourself above primordial(sp?) pond sludge. Please bring yourself into the civilized world and don't continue to insult your fellow iboaters as you have been so fond of doing in this thread. I've read your posts in other threads and you are above that. As has been stated many times previously, only those of a weak position or low intellect find the need to insult and call names. These behaviors are not conducive to persuading others of your point of view. And I was very careful not to call you any names, simply to point out the shortcomings and affects of your actions. I disagree with your point of view, however I do respect it. You don't respect others with your epithets. And for those of you who still feel the need to namecall, I prolly used too big o' words fer ya'

Boomyal · Apr 20, 2005

Re: GOP v Estate Tax

Originally posted by SoulWinner: PW, See brother, we as intelligent humans use these things called "words" in order to communicate thoughts. Different words mean different things, but all words have MEANING. For example, a man that marries two or more wives is a "bigamist." A man that forces himself on unwilling sex partners is called a "rapist." And lastly, someone who thinks the George Bush tax cuts are a tax break for the wealthy, someone who thinks higher taxes and government programs are the answer to problems with education, health care, poverty et al, is a communists/Marxist/Stalinist etc.

demsvmejm · Apr 20, 2005

Re: GOP v Estate Tax

Originally posted by eeboater: I, for one, WILL be affected by the estate tax. My father has been fortunate enough to WORK HARD at developing his company. YET PEOPLE LIKE DM FEEL HE DOESN'T DESERVE THE MONEY HE BUSTED HIS BUTT FOR

I am not saying HE doesn't deserve the money he earned. But what exactly entitles you to it? Yes he is your father, but isn't that wealth someone elses, I mean not yours? Wealth redistribution?

I'm not for taxes, but I'm for everyone paying their fair share. HUH? So, which one is it? Paying taxes or not paying taxes?

I thought, and most iboaters proved me right, that it was understood that I'm not for taxes, BUT under the current system I'm for everyone paying their fair share.

I know the answer to that question. Lets pay for clean hypodermic needles for drug addicts. Lets continue to pay money into a failing Social Security system. David Moore: I challenge you to produce a plan the democrats have produced for America in the past 8 years? I'm going to be so happy when the Democrat party just implodes. Sean

And the rest of your rant is just to preposterous to address.

SoulWinner · Apr 21, 2005

Re: GOP v Estate Tax

David, calling a spade a spade is not name calling. Calling a Marxist a Marxist is not name calling, it is properly identifying that person for what they are. And you sir appear to be a Marxist. Read Karl's book (The Communist Manifesto), I'll loan you my copy if you like, and you will see that the ideals you and PW espouse are Marxist. If that truth insults you, that's not my problem. I am VERY familiar with ideologies embraced by PW, I have studied economics thoroughly, and even taught the subject. I have read Karl Marx, but more interesting and compelling was Upton Sinclair who won fame for writing "The Jungle", an expose on the meat packing industry in the early 20th century. Interesting how that book even gave a peek at racism in the roots of liberalism, mirrored today by Robert Byrd in the Senate. I also have a rare copy of Sinclair's Pulitzer winning "Dragon's Teeth." Also very compelling, but also interesting in that he was very vocal about being a socialist. He wrote pro-socialist books and pamphlets, spoke at pro-socialist rallies etc. Why don't today's socialists have the bravery or integrity to admit what they are? Call me a "neo-con", fine I'm a neo-con, I am a conservative who is so angry and frustrated with the spineless POS's I voted for that I may not vote next election. However, look up the terms Marxist, Socialist, Communist and see which more accurately describes you and own it. It's nothing to be ashamed of. Pretending your not IS something to be ashamed of.

jtexas · Apr 21, 2005

Re: GOP v Estate Tax

Hold on thar just a minute mister, are you actually saying that Karl Marx wrote that George Bush's tax cuts are tax breaks for the wealthy? That's news to me. And what do government education, health care and poverty programs have in common with facism? Nothing that I know of. It's a good thing you are so familiar with Marx, so you can carefully avoid agreeing with anything he said; otherwise you would have to label yourself a "Marxist". Wonder if he used synthetic oil? Where did he stand on soldering vs crimping? Coke or Pepsi? We need to know the answer to these questions so we can identify all the Marxists among us! What a second, I believe that public education is a good thing...I must be communist. Dangit! Now I have to wear one of those funny fur hats and call everybody "comrade." Some people call it "name-calling," some call it "labelling," some call it "calling a spade a spade," some call it "stereotyping," (some call it "polymorphism," but they're really stupid), call it what you will, but pretending that somebody else is something that you're not is really not all that unusual; you don't have to be ashamed of it. Unless of course you want to. If Bush's tax cut disproportionately benefits the wealthy, must I deny it else risk being sent to Siberia? Hope not.

demsvmejm · Apr 21, 2005

Re: GOP v Estate Tax

SW calling a spade a spade, name-calling, labeling, etc. may be ok in your book. But what you are doing is ignoring the basic concept that I tried to point out. If you could stand your ground and defend your position, with integrity and honesty, you would not need to label. Your practice of calling me a Marxist and others Marxist/Stalinist/Commie Pinko's is nothing more than trying to coerce the rest of us into accepting your point of view. IT is called intimidation. It is insulting, and that is no way to achieve one's goal. After all, if I insult you, will you be more or less willing to listen to me? And if your statement "We as intelligent humans use these things called "words" in order to communicate thoughts," is true, then you would not need to spew these epithets. That is if you are an intelligent human. And if I understood the History Channel's documentary correctly, Marx's and Stalin's government in Russia oppressed the poorer citizens and favored the wealthy, the few wealthy, the privileged. And those who dared to dissent were "re-educated. With our presidents behavior regarding "Persons of Interest, Enemy Combatants," and whatever else he is calling the lost souls being held indefinitely in military prisons in connection with his war on terror, who knows what will happen if we dissent. These poor souls are being deprived of due process. At best, someone somewhere knows who is there, but can't do anything to help these people. You may say it ok, because these are people with terrorist links, but do you really know that for sure? You could be the next terror suspect hauled away, to be held for an indefinite period, without so much as a reason why. This is not Liberal Democrat rhetoric. This is fact. In fact, the Federal courts have directed the president to do something with these people, or let them free. I hope that if these people really have terrorist ties, that the government can hold them. But up till now, baby bush hasn't even needed any proof, just allegations. Seems Marxist to me. But then again, I'm only calling a spade a spade.

PW2 · Apr 21, 2005

Re: GOP v Estate Tax

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- originally posted by PW2: ...They have no interest in fixing Social Security--they want to screw it up so bad it cannot be fixed--and then say I told you so.... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- posted by J Texas Did you really mean to resort to using that kind of rhetoric? That's not the kind of reasoned logic we've come to expect from you. Yes, because this administration has the notion of spin to an artform. You cannot figure out what they mean using the headlines and topics they use, and are left to figure out what they really mean on your own. A couple other examples: "Healthy Forest Initiative" means resuming agressive cutting of mature timber in federal forests in probably a non-sustainable fashion, "clear Skies initiative" means relaxing provisions of the clean air act to allow coal power plants to mdernize without doing up-to-date pollution controls as well. There are endless examples of this. So when they say they want to "save" social security, it is best to not take that at face value, but try to find out what they really mean.

GOP v Estate Tax

Commander

Rear Admiral

Commander

Rear Admiral

Commander

Commander

Lieutenant Commander

Petty Officer 1st Class

Petty Officer 1st Class

DJ

Guest

Fleet Admiral

Fleet Admiral

Master Chief Petty Officer

Master Chief Petty Officer

Supreme Mariner

Master Chief Petty Officer

Commander

Fleet Admiral

Master Chief Petty Officer

Commander