GOP v Estate Tax

[Tinkerer]

Re: GOP v Estate Tax

You blokes need to move a long way south.<br /><br />No death taxes down here for the past 30 odd years.<br /><br />The richer you are here the more optional paying tax becomes, because of the various tax avoidance structures available to the rich, very high wage (they like to call it salary or even remuneration) earners, and high earning self-employed.<br /><br />Various exemptions, deductions, and special treatments for family farms and businesses.<br /><br />The rest of us get screwed.<br /><br />Also the farmers, small and large business owners, very high wage earners, high earning self-employed, rich and very rich never stop whingeing about how they're being screwed by tax. <br /><br />Not to mention the large corporations whose $5 million a year CEO's never shut up telling us about how their useless workers on $30,000 a year can't get an extra 20 cents an hour or any tax breaks or it'll be the end of civilization as we, or they anyway, know it.<br /><br />These people also never stop whingeing about how everybody below their level on the totem pole doesn't work hard enough and are paid too much and don't need tax relief like the poor oppressed rich.<br /><br />I do my bit to justify these complaints and to equalise tax benefits by doing as little as possible so that my wage for the very substantial part of the day that I don't do any work goes to tax. It's a very satisfying form of wealth re-distribution which I recommend to everybody.

 

[DJ]

Re: GOP v Estate Tax

PW2,<br /><br />Tell that to the two families I know that were forced to sell. <br /><br />The socialist liberal view doesn't sit well with a family finacially wiped out (for generations) by an incidious confiscation.<br /><br />This is how it works.<br /><br />1. The senior owner dies. Tax laws did not allow him to transfer the land without serious penalty, before death. Why should he have to finance something he already owns?<br /><br />2. The Fed. Gov. comes in and places a tax value on the property, let's say $1M.<br /><br />3. The family has to come up with $550K to pay the "death tax" bill.<br /><br />4. They don't have the $550K, so the farm goes into tax recievership.<br /><br />5. The gov't sells the farm for $475K.<br /><br />6. The family no longer has the farm but still owes $125K.<br /><br />Tell me HOW that ius justified by ANY sense of decency.

 

[DJ]

Re: GOP v Estate Tax

These people also never stop whingeing about how everybody below their level on the totem pole doesn't work hard enough and are paid too much and don't need tax relief like the poor oppressed rich.<br /><br />I do my bit to justify these complaints and to equalise tax benefits by doing as little as possible so that my wage for the very substantial part of the day that I don't do any work goes to tax. It's a very satisfying form of wealth re-distribution which I recommend to everybody. <br /><br />

Wow, that's a great outlook on life. <br /><br /> As I said before, it's the politics of envy. Very dangerous, just ask the Soviets. They wiped out the rich so they could live in squalor for 100 years. What a plan.<br /><br />In my younger days I worked many jobs, mostly for entreprenuers. Guess what, every one of them was well off. <br /><br />I've never been hired by a poor man.

 

[SoulWinner]

Re: GOP v Estate Tax

DJ,<br /><br />You will never be able to argue your point to a Marxist like PW. Facts don't don't matter to socialists.

 

[kenimpzoom]

Re: GOP v Estate Tax

Ok, so lets say they eliminate the "death tax".<br /><br />So what tax will they increase to make up the difference? Or will we just borrow another trillion from Japan?<br /><br />DO you really think they will ever cut their spending?<br /><br />This is all just diversionary tactics to stop you from thinking about the real issue... SPENDING!!!<br /><br />Ken

 

[eeboater]

Re: GOP v Estate Tax

I, for one, WILL be affected by the estate tax. My father has been fortunate enough to WORK HARD at developing his company. <br /><br />YET PEOPLE LIKE DM FEEL HE DOESN'T DESERVE THE MONEY HE BUSTED HIS BUTT FOR<br /><br />So tell me, you're saying that you're not for "tax cuts for the rich." And that the tax base is getting shifted to the lower-income portion of America. For CRIPES SAKE, the lower-income portion of America HARDLY PAYS ANY TAXES!!!!!!! You would rather take money from people who worked HARD for it, and give it to the DREGS OF SOCIETY because they can't get off their lazy a** and do something with their lives.<br /><br />

I'm not for taxes, but I'm for everyone paying their fair share.

HUH? So, which one is it? Paying taxes or not paying taxes? I know the answer to that question. Lets pay for clean hypodermic needles for drug addicts. Lets continue to pay money into a failing Social Security system.<br /><br />David Moore: I challenge you to produce a plan the democrats have produced for America in the past 8 years?<br /><br />I'm going to be so happy when the Democrat party just implodes.<br /><br />Sean

 

[DJ]

Re: GOP v Estate Tax

SW,<br /><br />Yea, I know. Kind of like talking to myself. <br /><br />The numbers DON'T lie. The rich pay the majority of the tax load, in this country.<br /><br />I still propose a flat tax, not unlike the tithe.<br /><br />God doesn't care if your 10% is $5.00 or $5M. All the same, in His eyes.<br /><br />We could use that principle for our tax system.<br /><br />But, the BOGUS "seperation of church and state" (which is not written anywhere in the constitution) crowd will shout that down, in a heartbeat.

 

[NYMINUTE]

Re: GOP v Estate Tax

I thought it was a donation? When will the air be taxed? If Indiana gets the daylight savings<br />time passed, they will then tax TIME!

 

[PW2]

Re: GOP v Estate Tax

DJ,<br /><br />I'd suggest those friends of yours need a better tax attorney.<br /><br />And what are the "facts", precisely, that I'm ignoring?<br /><br />That there is currently an exemption that excludes the first million or so from any tax liability?<br /><br />Ok, fight to raise it to say 3 million or so. I might even be able to support that. But to eliminate it entirely? Not a chance in hell.

 

[RubberFrog]

Re: GOP v Estate Tax

Originally posted by eeboater:<br /> <br />I'm going to be so happy when the Democrat party just implodes.

You remind me of Alex Keaton <br />George

 

[johnson-liner]

Re: GOP v Estate Tax

quote:<br />"I'm tired of the incessent whining about the rich not paying their fare share. For one thing, it's not true. 50% of all tax revenue in this country is paid by the top 5% of wage earners. Look it up, those are the IRS figures, not mine."<br /><br />I don't think I'm being dense here, but I don't get what the problem with this fact is? Out of the total income taxes collected, it makes perfect sense that most of it would come from the top earners. <br /><br />I mean, to really siplify it, the tax you pay is more or less a percentage of what you made (I realize it's not truly a flat tax). So just as an example use 20%, if I make $35K I pay $7000.00 in taxes. If I make $10mil I pay $2mil in taxes. How is it not obvious that the guy making $10mil is going to actually put more into the system? I mean it is supposed to be a tax on what you earn right? So how is the quote above even considered a point in this discussion? <br /><br />I'm sure I could be enlightened a little more on the whole subject of taxes since I'm not an accountant and don't work for the IRS, but I don't see how that fact/point even says anything. From what I do know, IMO the only fair way to do it would be a flat tax for everyone. I mean if I'm paying say 20% of the $35K I WORKED HARD FOR, why shouldn't the guy making $10mil pay 20% of what he/she worked hard for?<br /><br />PS - I think some people need to get it out of the tiny little brains that people who may not make a ton of dough every year don't work hard. Maybe you should go bust your azz building your own house or do the repairs on the highways yourself or...the list goes on and see how little work it is. PUKE!

 

[PW2]

Re: GOP v Estate Tax

Let's see...<br /><br />When was the last time we achieved a balanced budget? Oh, yeah, under the democrats.<br /><br />When did we dramatically expand world trade, and raise the standard of living for all Americans? under the democrats.<br /><br />The lowest sustained unemployment rate, and the greatest peacetime eeconomic expansion in the history of this country.. while continuing to clean up the environment.. ah, right, the democrats...<br /><br />And your biggest apparent concern seems to be protecting that wealth earned under the dems from any sort of tax liability, while passing on huge current tax liabilities in the form of deficits to the rest of us and our children.<br /><br />Now that's a plan for America!!!

 

[DJ]

Re: GOP v Estate Tax

Let's See.<br /><br />

When was the last time we achieved a balanced budget? Oh, yeah, under the democrats.<br />

The budget was balanced with a Republican congress. You know, the ones that actually can spend the money. <br /><br />Not to mention, Pres. Clinton borrowed money with short term rates to accomplish a portion of this. Guess what? The notes came due!<br /><br />

When did we dramatically expand world trade, and raise the standard of living for all Americans? under the democrats.

All economic indicators are up. The Dot Com bubble was during that "glorious time". Oh, that was a real economic boom. That destroyed millions of folks. All bogus.<br /><br />I must give credit where it is due. VP Gore invented the internet which led to the Dot Com. Great plan.<br /><br /><br />

The lowest sustained unemployment rate, and the greatest peacetime eeconomic expansion in the history of this country.. while continuing to clean up the environment.. ah, right, the democrats.

An unemployment rate of 5% is not sustainable. What were all those glorious jobs-midnight basketball? Or, Dot Com? We're paying the Piper now.<br /><br /><br />

And your biggest apparent concern seems to be protecting that wealth earned under the dems from any sort of tax liability, while passing on huge current tax liabilities in the form of deficits to the rest of us and our children.<br />

What wealth? Dot Com? I'll make my own, thank you very much. I don't need, or want, a penny from my neighbor filtered through some buearocracy.<br /><br />Yep, they had a real plan. Give me a break.

 

[jimchere]

Re: GOP v Estate Tax

Originally posted by PW2:<br /> The family farm argument is simply hogwash. There are not a handful of people out there as farmers that would be affected..Most of the larger more valuable farms are corporate ventures.<br /><br />And with all the farm subsidies they recieve over the years--mostly paid to Wall Street types anyway--it's hard to get too sympathetic.<br /><br />Raise the exclusion 3 million or so if you want--But in the days of 2.7 trillion budgets and half trillion dollar deficits, someone is going to pay, and it is likely to be paid by those of us without effective, well funded PACS.

Just happened to my family at my grandmother's passing last year. NIce hill country ranch now going to the developers 'cause we couldn't afford the tax...developers can afford cash down to split it into small plots. Who'd the tax help in this case? Land was in the family since early 1800's.

 

[SoulWinner]

Re: GOP v Estate Tax

Well done DJ, but as I said before, trying to argue with a Marxist/Stalinist/Commie Pinko is like trying to argue with an insane person. You just can't win because facts have no meaning to them. Now if you could couch conservatism in a way that made them "FEEL GOOD" they'd jump on board, no problem.

 

[eeboater]

Re: GOP v Estate Tax

Originally posted by RubberFrog:<br />

Originally posted by eeboater:<br /> <br />I'm going to be so happy when the Democrat party just implodes.

You remind me of Alex Keaton <br />George

Michael J. Fox contrary to his politics ROCKS!!! He will always be Marty McFly in my mind...<br /><br />Sean

 

[KM2]

Re: GOP v Estate Tax

I would like the death tax to go away or increase to affect only the ultra wealthy. With some financial planning the family farm problem can be dealt with so the hiers don't have to sell. It's a shame that that has happened.<br /><br />The gift amount is $11,000 now.<br /><br />The estate tax exclusion is 1.5 million now and 2 million next year. Goes up to 3.5 million and is repealed in 2010. Under the current law it returns at 1 million in 2011. That's what they are working on in Washington right now.

 

[PW2]

Re: GOP v Estate Tax

Farms are being lost to developers all the time.<br /><br />When a piece of property increases in value due to development, why should it not be taxed based on real market value, as opposed to a dramtically deflated value as a farm. That is called progress!<br /><br />Oh, and SW, when you can't credibly argue issues, labels and name calling are the logical path to take. I understand.

 

[PW2]

Re: GOP v Estate Tax

At least, revisionist history aside, you agree, DJ, that all of those things came about under the dems. <br />I have to admit its a bit curious how you can give credit to a Republican congress, when we have an even bigger republican congress now with a Republican president, and our economic fortunes have been reversed.<br /><br />But then I don't understand republican logic, I guess. 2+2= 7 3/4

 

[johnson-liner]

Re: GOP v Estate Tax

A farm going under no matter the circumstances or what it's future holds I would never consider progress. A development in it's place IMO is disgusting. What it is is a loss of a way of life, a loss of a wonderful setting to grow up in and a loss for someone's children to learn the value of hard work from the time they can walk. <br /><br />It's just plain sad. <br /><br />As a society we are "progressing" ourselves out of space, out of resources and out of any inkling of the knowledge of how to provide for ourselves. People have become far too dependent on everyone but themselves.