GOP v Estate Tax

SoulWinner

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Well, here they go again. The GOP is going after the Death Tax again. I am praying that they defeat it this time around. It is sickening that we are taxed on every dollar we earn, we are taxed on every dollar we spend, and then when we die the government comes in and confiscates a third of what is left. Just where do these sob's get off?!?!
 

roscoe

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Re: GOP v Estate Tax

Plain and simple, Wealth Confiscation.<br /><br />I hope they can get the votes they need to eliminate it.
 

Boomyal

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Re: GOP v Estate Tax

We have that fight going on in the state of Wa as well. The state death tax was tied to the federal death tax. With the Federal tax currently at zero, the state kept trying to collect theirs.<br /><br />The state Supreme court just struck down the state collections because X percent of Zero (federal tax rate) is Zero, so the court said Nada. Now washington is faced with huge refunds from the last couple of years.<br /><br />the new democratic controlled state legislature and the new democrat governor are scrambling to try to institute a new death tax.<br /><br />I think it's time for another tax revolt.
 

jtexas

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Re: GOP v Estate Tax

It's not just a "Death Tax" - it's called "Wealth Transfer Tax" because it applies to gifts of greater than $10k made during your lifetime also. Tax only applies to excess over $1.5 million; the limit was $1 million for decades until last year.<br /><br />Historically, in some countries you have wealth concentrated in the hands of very few, so you have an extreme upper class and an extreme lower class. Inherited economic power, like inherited political power (i.e. aristocracy) was thought to be contrary to American values.<br /><br />You give up estate tax revenue now, somebody's gonna have to pay - I bet it's the middle class.<br /><br /><br />[edit] boomyal, don't know who told you it was zero, but they were sadly misinformed.
 

SoulWinner

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Re: GOP v Estate Tax

Jtexas,<br /><br />George Washinton courted and married for money. The only thing wrong with inherited money and status that I can see is with folks like the kennedys.<br /><br />About who will pay, well why not hold the government accountable for the money they throw away or allocate as pork? Every time tax reliefe is proposed the dems asks "who is gonna pay for it?" Why don't controle their spending the same way we have to?
 

Boomyal

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Re: GOP v Estate Tax

Originally posted by jtexas:<br /> because it applies to gifts of greater than $10k made during your lifetime also.<br /><br /> <br />You give up estate tax revenue now, somebody's gonna have to pay - I bet it's the middle class.<br /><br /><br />[edit] boomyal, don't know who told you it was zero, but they were sadly misinformed.
Yeah Jtexas I tried to simplifiy. The state was trying to collect taxes on the amount of money that had been recently exempted by the Feds. Being as that, in WA law, the state tax was a % of the federal tax, they were disallowed from collecting taxes on that amount.<br /><br />As to the "gift tax", the $10k exclusion (per person) is annual not lifetime.<br /><br />As to 'who will have to pay' to make up the loss, hows about they just reduce spending? The governments continue to take a larger and larger percentage of the whole pie!
 

SoulWinner

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Re: GOP v Estate Tax

Jtexas,<br /><br />George Washington courted and married for money. The only thing wrong with inherited money and status that I can see is with folks like the Kennedy's.<br /><br />About who will pay, well why not hold the government accountable for the money they throw away or allocate as pork? Every time tax relief is proposed the Dem's asks "who is gonna pay for it?" Why don't control their spending the same way we have to?
 

jtexas

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Re: GOP v Estate Tax

SW, it was during Franklin Roosevelt's (can you say "lib-er-al") administration that the estate tax in its current form was adopted; so you're right, it wasn't GW's philosophy (or any of the "founding fathers") that got us here. There had been revenue-generating estate taxes a couple or three times before that, passed & later repealed. Once to build the navy, I believe, one to finance the Civil War and one other.<br /><br />Further clarification on the $10k exemption; annual exemption, anything over $10k (each donor to each recipient each year) applies against your $1.5 million lifetime "Unified Wealth Transfer Tax Credit." <br /><br />And it ain't just the Dems asking who's going to pay, friend, it behooves us all to ask that. Why don't they reduce spending? You're preaching to the choir! The answer, of course, is "because they are congress." To them, a few hundred trillion borrowed dollars is just like monopoly money!
 

aspeck

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Re: GOP v Estate Tax

FOUNDERS ON TAXATION<br /><br />"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical. ... A wise and frugal government ...shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. ... Congress has not unlimited powers to provide for the general welfare but only those specifically enumerated. ... Would it not be better to simplify the system of taxation rather than to spread it over such a variety of subjects and pass through so many new hands?" --Thomas Jefferson<br /><br />"The apportionment of taxes on the various descriptions of property is an act which seems to require the most exact impartiality; yet there is, perhaps, no legislative act in which greater opportunity and temptation are given to a predominant party to trample on the rules of justice. Every shilling which they overburden the inferior number is a shilling saved to their own pockets." --James Madison <br /><br />"The moment the idea is admitted into society that property is not as sacred as the laws of God, and that there is not a force of law and public justice to protect it, anarchy and tyranny commence. If 'Thou shalt not covet' and 'Thou shalt not steal' were not commandments of Heaven, they must be made inviolable precepts in every society before it can be civilized or made free." --John Adams<br /><br />"It is a signal advantage of taxes on articles of consumption that they contain in their own nature a security against excess. ... If duties are too high, they lessen the consumption; the collection is eluded; and the product to the treasury is not so great as when they are confined within proper and moderate bounds." --Alexander Hamilton <br /><br />"When the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic." --Benjamin Franklin <br /><br /><br />OTHER QUOTES ON TAXES<br /><br />"Government does not tax to get the money it needs; government always finds a need for the money it gets." --Ronald Reagan<br /><br />"In general, the art of government consists in taking as much money as possible from one party of the citizens to give to the other." --Voltaire <br /><br />"Government cannot make man richer, but it can make him poorer." --Ludwig von Mises<br /><br />"We contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle." --Winston Churchill<br /><br />"Collecting more taxes than is absolutely necessary is legalized robbery." --Calvin Coolidge <br /><br />"The current tax code is a daily mugging." --Ronald Reagan<br /><br />"The only difference between a tax man and a taxidermist is that the taxidermist leaves the skin." --Mark Twain<br /><br />"Income taxes have made more liars out of the American people than golf." --Will Rogers <br /><br />"Three groups spend other people's money: children, thieves, politicians. All three need supervision." --**** Armey<br /><br /> "The Declaration of Independence, the words that launched our nation -- 1,300 words. The Bible, the word of God -- 773,000 words. The Tax Code, the words of politicians -- 7,000,000 words -- and growing!" --Steve Forbes<br /><br />"The government taxes you when you bring home a paycheck. It taxes you when you make a phone call. It taxes you when you turn on a light. It taxes you when you sell a stock. It taxes you when you fill your car with gas. It taxes you when you ride a plane. It taxes you when you get married. Then it taxes you when you die. This is taxual insanity and it must end." --J. C. Watts, Jr.<br /><br />"Give me a break -- They say taxes are inevitable ... like death. At least death doesn't come every year." --John Stossel
 

aspeck

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Re: GOP v Estate Tax

jtexas, isn't that gift amount now $11,000 per year per recipient?<br /><br />Using the $10,000 figure, a man can give his some $10,000 each year with no tax burden to the son. The man's wife can give the son $10,000 with no tax burden. The man can give the son's wife $10,000, the man's wife can give the son's wife $10,000. Repeat for each child. That is a lot of change that can be given without any gift tax.<br /><br />But if the man gives his son $20,000, then either $10,000 becomes a tax burden to the son, or $10,000 is deducted from the man's Death Tax exclusion.<br /><br />There, are you confused yet?
 

Elmer Fudge

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Re: GOP v Estate Tax

The last big party was at boston harbour, when will the next party begin and where?
 

PW2

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Re: GOP v Estate Tax

I admit that this issue completely baffles me. I would venture a guess that there is hardly an individual on this board that would even be affected by this at all.<br /><br />Those that are affected are families (like the Kennedys) where every possible advantage that our society has to offer is available to them regarding schooling etc. Do we really need to worry if they get a tax break.<br /><br />I have no problem with the notion that these families can get their kids into the finest prep schools and the best universities, with the best contacts and every other possible advantage--presumably they've earned it--but I draw the line at worrying about granting them a big tax break for the privilege.<br /><br />Protecting a family business makes at least some sense--raise the exclusion to say 3 million or so, but to eliminate it is incomprehensible especially when we can't cover what we are spending now.
 

mattttt25

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Re: GOP v Estate Tax

why not make the death tax 100%, but eliminate income tax. man, that would be cool. when i'm dead, who cares.
 

jtexas

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Re: GOP v Estate Tax

Originally posted by aspeck:<br /> jtexas, isn't that gift amount now $11,000 per year per recipient?<br /><br />Using the $10,000 figure, a man can give his some $10,000 each year with no tax burden to the son. The man's wife can give the son $10,000 with no tax burden. The man can give the son's wife $10,000, the man's wife can give the son's wife $10,000. Repeat for each child. That is a lot of change that can be given without any gift tax.<br /><br />But if the man gives his son $20,000, then either $10,000 becomes a tax burden to the son, or $10,000 is deducted from the man's Death Tax exclusion.<br /><br />There, are you confused yet?
$10k, $11k, could be, I'm not personally aquainted with the change. But you're right, grandma & grandpa could give $80k (or $88k) to son, DIL & two grandkids. Gets it out of the estate untaxed. But if you do this and then later in the same year give 'em a color sonar with GPS for Christmas, you've gone over your annual exclusion.<br /><br />But note in your second example that the tax is not a burden on the son, who has no reporting requirement or tax liability; it's Daddy who must file a gift tax return and either pay the gift tax now, or claim $10k (or $9k) out of his $1.5 million unified credit. Gift tax being what they call the estate tax before you die.<br /><br />And don't even get me started about Generation Skipping Taxes (cause I don't know nothin about em) or the UGMA (Unified Gifts to Minors Act) (cause I don't know nothin about that either)!
 

demsvmejm

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Re: GOP v Estate Tax

Originally posted by mattttt25:<br /> why not make the death tax 100%, but eliminate income tax. man, that would be cool. when i'm dead, who cares.
Ilike the way you think! :D
 

demsvmejm

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Re: GOP v Estate Tax

Originally posted by PW2:<br /> I admit that this issue completely baffles me. I would venture a guess that there is hardly an individual on this board that would even be affected by this at all.<br /><br />Those that are affected are families (like the Kennedys) where every possible advantage that our society has to offer is available to them regarding schooling etc. Do we really need to worry if they get a tax break.<br /><br />I have no problem with the notion that these families can get their kids into the finest prep schools and the best universities, with the best contacts and every other possible advantage--presumably they've earned it--but I draw the line at worrying about granting them a big tax break for the privilege.<br /><br />Protecting a family business makes at least some sense--raise the exclusion to say 3 million or so, but to eliminate it is incomprehensible especially when we can't cover what we are spending now.
This is why I am non-Republican. In my view, the red party (like communism?) is for the wealthy and all others be damned. I mana Kerry at least challenged bush to eliminate the tax break for those earning more than 200K/yr, stating that they both would suffer.<br />I'm not for taxes, but I'm for everyone paying their fair share. And when the wealthy are treated to enough tax breaks and other considerations that they must pay the alternate minimum tax, something is wrong. I like the idea of a flat tax, or a consumption(sales) tax at the federal level. So long as there is some protection for the poor. It will never happen, God forbid some millionaire pay more when he buys his luxury yacht(that's bigger than my house), than he would pay under the current tax shift onto the working class. The favors and privileges afforded the wealthy under our current tax code make my blood boil.<br />Under the current tax code I'd love to pay $100K in income tax, cuz that would mean I'd be making so much. And I read several references to the Dem's asking where's the money going to come from, for this rich welfare program? At least someone is looking out for us, the little guy. Sure isn't bush.
 
D

DJ

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Re: GOP v Estate Tax

PW2,<br /><br />So it's OK that a family has to sell a farm that's been in the family for 100 years because of a wealth transfer tax?<br /><br />I'm tired of the incessent whining about the rich not paying their fare share. For one thing, it's not true. 50% of all tax revenue in this country is paid by the top 5% of wage earners. Look it up, those are the IRS figures, not mine.<br /><br />Why should the wealth, for example, have to pay $.50 on the dollar and everyone else pay $.10?<br /><br />That's called the politics of ENVY.
 

Boomyal

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Re: GOP v Estate Tax

You are sick and deluded DM. Your rant against the rich is as contradictory, illogical and uninformed as it is an outright call for thievery. Statistics abound on what percentage of the total tax revenue is paid by the rich. I won't even bother to post the numbers here because you will just continue to refuse to see them.<br /><br />What right does a group of people have to take a higher proportion of a mans labor just because he has been more productive? Why is paying a higher percentage your perception of fairness? <br /><br />Your statement about the Dems asking where the money is going to come from, comes from the socialistic perception that everything a man makes belongs to the State. It is just another clever socialist play on words that are intended to delude the unthinking dupes that the Democrats are counting on for votes.<br /><br />You contradict yourself when you say that you would welcome a flat tax or a consumption tax. Neither one of those taxes are progressive in nature and that is the reason that your SocialCrats will fight tooth and nail to keep from happening. They fly in the face of what you are ranting about above.<br /><br />Your statements, here, are a prime example of why the Democrats are falling on their faces today. They try instill envy and divide people into classes so they can pit them against each other and you have fallen for it. Fewer and fewer others are.
 

PW2

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Re: GOP v Estate Tax

The family farm argument is simply hogwash. There are not a handful of people out there as farmers that would be affected..Most of the larger more valuable farms are corporate ventures.<br /><br />And with all the farm subsidies they recieve over the years--mostly paid to Wall Street types anyway--it's hard to get too sympathetic.<br /><br />Raise the exclusion 3 million or so if you want--But in the days of 2.7 trillion budgets and half trillion dollar deficits, someone is going to pay, and it is likely to be paid by those of us without effective, well funded PACS.
 
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