Go Figure.......

W

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Seaman
Joined
Jun 13, 2008
Messages
67
Hey,
How come it is that I had this '75 Johnson 4hp runing for a good 45 min.
the other day in a pail that was covering all components needed, today
we finally get a break in the weather so I take it out on the lake and nothing!!! At first I thought I had flooded it,waited awhile it'd turn over for about 6 seconds and die out. I waited til my patients got calm and whamo
it ran in fast speed for about 5 min. and that was it.I got it home put it in a 50 gal. pail and after about a 1/2hr of pulling I got it to run in fast again for about 1/2 hr. the choke would'nt warm up to close the choke so I had it set at 1/2 choke. Then I couldn't get it any better than that and it died out and can't start it now. Needless to say my hands look like they went through a grinder. I looked at the fuel filter it was clogged up cleaned that out and that was before I got it to run for a 1/2 hr. Plugs - top one looks good - bottom
looks fouled but I tried cleaning it out as best I could - that was before it ran for a 1/2 hour as well. What do I need to do to get this runing good ? Impeller
is working - nothing getting hot, just my patients :mad: All HELP NEEDED on this guys. Thanks in advance .
 
tashasdaddy

tashasdaddy

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
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Nov 11, 2005
Messages
51,019
Re: Go Figure.......

do you have spark on both plugs when it quits? is it hot when it quits, coil going bad. could some of the crud have gotten thru the filter. are you using new gas-oil mixture.
 
W

WATERTIMES

Seaman
Joined
Jun 13, 2008
Messages
67
Re: Go Figure.......

I didn't check for spark, here I go figuring it was getting it.:redface: as for being hot hey I touched everything I could think of to be sure and nothing seemed to be hot.I'm using 16oz -6 gal. I'm guessing that now theres a chance that crud may have got into the carb now.:eek: I know you guys say that it should only take 1-2-3 pulls to get it started,anything more than that
you got troubles. I guess that is absolutly correct.
 
tashasdaddy

tashasdaddy

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
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Messages
51,019
Re: Go Figure.......

never assume anything with a motor. trouble shooting saves you a bunch of money. have you also checked compression. you have to have compression, correct spark, correct air, fuel, oil mixture.
 
Vic.S

Vic.S

Rear Admiral
Joined
May 4, 2004
Messages
4,718
Re: Go Figure.......

That motor has coil and points ignition hasn't it?

So check /clean and reset, but preferably replace, plugs. Clean and rest points. Inspect ignition coil and suspect the condenser if you don't get a good spark.

Once you have good sparks if it wont run properly then start to look at the carb.

If the jets are correctly adjusted and especially if you can get it to run with a bit of choke then dirt in the carb is very likely to be the trouble.

from what you have said dirt in the carb is a real possibility, but get good sparks first before doing a carb clean.
 
W

WATERTIMES

Seaman
Joined
Jun 13, 2008
Messages
67
Re: Go Figure.......

tashasdaddy, would you happen to know what plugs are supposed to be in it?
Iv'e got J8C 's in it. I'm wonderin' if their burnin hot enough? To be honest
I don't know if my hands can take anymore rashes from the pullin'.:(
I don't have a compression tester {I will though},what does my coil go for
price wise?I didn't see a price on the store site.Is it possible for the plug wires to be connected to the wrong plug,{does it even matter}.To check for
spark I need to hold them with insulated pliers and have them grounded to the
block? Or can I just hold them? I just don't understand why it ran fine the other day and now all of a sudden it's not wantin to run at all.I does'nt make sense to me. OH... What would make the carb not warm up enough to be able
to close it, like I said I could only get it to go 1/2 way and that was after it had been runing for awhile.
 
R

R.Johnson

Rear Admiral
Joined
Sep 24, 2003
Messages
4,446
Re: Go Figure.......

If you have to run with half choke, you have a dirty carb. The idle circuit of the carb is clogged, and that is what is making it so hard to start.When you get it apart, look in the bottom of the bowl where the high speed nozzle goes in, and also remove, and check the high speed orifice. I'm betting you will find varnish, or sludge. Also, the plug wires must be in proper order.
 
JB

JB

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Joined
Mar 25, 2001
Messages
45,907
Re: Go Figure.......

You should have J4Cs in that engine. J8C is too hot. If you troll at low rpm a lot you can probably get away with J6C.

Troubleshoot, troubleshoot, troubleshoot. So far it seems to be a carb problem, but don't do anything until you know, particularly don't mess with the ignition.

Troubleshooting steps are in "Outboard won't start" in Engine FAQs.
 
HighTrim

HighTrim

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Jun 21, 2007
Messages
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Seaman
Joined
Jun 13, 2008
Messages
67
Re: Go Figure.......

Thank you all for your help ! Well last night I went out and made meat of my hands again:eek:. I found I have good spark on top, and a dim spark on bottom.I'm thinking the bottom is dim because it's the one that looks to be fouled.? Then I ventured to the fuel filter again, and beyond,{fuel pump}??
Well took the spacers apart and surprise!!we got little spring and a big one !
Oh no ! I know it didn't go too well, but that had caked dirt and grime in it as well.I have a feeling {well I know} I didn't put the gaskets back together right
because now it's harder than heck to get the fuel to pump from the bulb to the motor,every once so often the carb would get enough gas and wanna turn over just for a second, so do I now need a fuel pump if that part behind the filter is just that?? Again,I can't find any prices on the store site what or how can I find prices on these parts ? Would Napa be able to get these parts for me, or will I have to go to a marine shop? P.S..I just checked on the store
site and they don't carry my fuel pump only starts at 6hp.,I know I need one of those:rolleyes: they also didn't have a carb rebuild kit for it, also know I need that as well.Where should I be lookin for these must have parts??:eek:
 
Vic.S

Vic.S

Rear Admiral
Joined
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Messages
4,718
Re: Go Figure.......

The Crowley Marine website might be useful to you The parts catalog has exploded diagrams, prices and parts availablity info. You motor is covered i've checked.
 
W

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Seaman
Joined
Jun 13, 2008
Messages
67
Re: Go Figure.......

Thanks Vic S. ! I kinda like the price of the fuel pumps on this site over theirs .:) Do you know if these parts I'm needing I could get through NAPA,
the reason I ask is I was reading a thread earlier and one specialist had mentioned to one needing help that NAPA deals with our parts.What contents
come with the carb rebuild kit? I'm assuming again:rolleyes:gaskets,needles,o'rings,float,all internal :confused:
I wanna be sure of all expected parts when I order.
 
Vic.S

Vic.S

Rear Admiral
Joined
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Messages
4,718
Re: Go Figure.......

I'm afraid you know as much as I do now!
 
W

WATERTIMES

Seaman
Joined
Jun 13, 2008
Messages
67
Re: Go Figure.......

Thank you all for all the help it's awesome havin people aim me in the right direction :D . I called NAPA and they put me on their website and the only thing they had that I needed or could get from them was the carb rebuild kit for $ 15.77, the fuel pumps didn't go back that far for my motor,so I'm 1/2 way there at least.{I don't know if I'm supposed to mention that but sorry if I wasn't}. On the fuel pump...would I be able to get away with getting the diaphrams and the springs or what? I don't really think I need the whole pump do I?:confused:
 
HighTrim

HighTrim

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Jun 21, 2007
Messages
10,486
Re: Go Figure.......

Im not so sure you need a fuel pump anyways. You may just need to take it apart and put it back together so that it functions properly. Check out the sticky at the top of this forum, it will help you in this.

Start with cleaning and rebuilding the carb and get her running first. Just my own humble opinion though.
 
W

WATERTIMES

Seaman
Joined
Jun 13, 2008
Messages
67
Re: Go Figure.......

HighTrim....I like your way of thinkin!!! I don't wanna spend $ where I need not. But I was concerned about takin the diaphrams apart{in fuel pump}
and the little tiny spring with a tiny, very tiny cap was givin me grief when applying the diaphram between the 2 spacers. Is there a trick to doing it or
is it all about luck? I was kinda wonderin if there was an adhearent applied to the diaphrams per spacer because they were pretty well bonded together.
What I'm gonna attempt to do tonite is clean out carb spotless,and do the fuel pump correctly assembled,and see where that gets me:D. I wish I had a diagram for that part but if I have to play it by sight thats what I'll do.I feel pretty confident I can do it,just makes things easier seein how.Love to have you folks for neighbors !!!!!!!!:D
 
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