GFCI outlets question

[bruceb58]

Re: GFCI outlets question

There is no reason to run separate neutrals on a MWBC because theoretically it will not carry the current of both receptacles at the same time....AC,alternating current. Only one receptacle at a time (8.3 milliseconds) can be on.

To add to this explanation, the neutral will only carry the difference between the load on the two legs. If a load on each leg is equal, the neutral will not be carrying any current at all. If only one leg has a load, the neutral will carry the whole current of that load.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: GFCI outlets question

You don't have 3-phase service down there?
Learn something new every day.

We do but typically not to residential areas. You can see some poles with the 3 phase running around but those are just the main feeds.

 

[glenn property of pam]

Re: GFCI outlets question

You don't have 3-phase service down there?
Learn something new every day.

i use a vfd and make my own 3-phase service for my workshop.

yes i did say 2 phase and i know that its the incorrect use of the word phase but its something everyone understands. it would be hard for someone from a country that only gets one hot and one netrual to the house to understand the way we center tap the transformer and end up with both 120/240. the big question is why is 208 still called single phase when its 2 legs of a 3y transformer

 

[glenn property of pam]

Re: GFCI outlets question

oh back to the gfci thing before we get to far of thread. at work the new rules now want all plug in equipment to be fitted with gfci's or the receptical they use to be gfci's. brilliant idea except we use single phase 480v welders and no one sells a gfci that works on single phase 480v.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: GFCI outlets question

the big question is why is 208 still called single phase when its 2 legs of a 3y transformer

The two legs of the the 3 phase are basically summed up to form the single phase. That is why the 240 3 phase becomes 208V single phase due to the 120? difference between the phases.

 

[joed]

Re: GFCI outlets question

Canada uses the same power grid as the USA. We are interlinked. The only major difference I see is industrial power. In the USA you like to use 480/277 volt systems. We are most often using 600/347 system.

 

[bigdee]

Re: GFCI outlets question

Canada uses the same power grid as the USA. We are interlinked. The only major difference I see is industrial power. In the USA you like to use 480/277 volt systems. We are most often using 600/347 system.

That is correct most industrial site in U.S. are low voltage, however some plants with big motors use medium voltage,over 600 volts. The last plant I worked at at a medium voltage system of 13,200 volts to power a 1200HP refiner. The substation was owned by the plant and maintained by the plant's maintenance guys. We were our own jurisdiction and no outside inspectors or power utility had any authority over us. We had to meet the safe work PPE and procedures required by osha but they were not allowed inside the live substation.

 

[Tim Frank]

Re: GFCI outlets question

Anyone remember what the OP's "GFCI outlets question" was? :facepalm:
Did we answer it?

 

[bigdee]

Re: GFCI outlets question

Anyone remember what the OP's "GFCI outlets question" was? :facepalm:
Did we answer it?

Yeah we did now it's time to go off the rails a bit.

 

[Tim Frank]

Re: GFCI outlets question

Yeah we did now it's time to go off the rails a bit.

As long as we did....

 

[NSBCraig]

Re: GFCI outlets question

What I meant was that in a circuit with the first device being a GFCI receptacle, if the downstream outlets are connected properly, they are also GFCI outlets.


No need to be sorry.
You said that you didn't see the point before you said that you knew what we were talking about....

Putting more than one circuit in a kitchen is not as effective (and definitely not the same) as the split receptacles. Unless you properly label the outlets so that you know which is which, you'll still blow a breaker when you manage to plug a kettle and toaster, for example, into the same circuit.
I like them....and wired my kitchen that way ....not just to meet code.

If your codes don't require them, no harm no foul.

What??? I asked you if you meant something because you weren't clear and then stated that if that was what you meant I didn't get the point.

In what way is that saying something before I knew what I was talking about? :facepalm:

Obviously I was thinking your unclear posting meant what it did, so that really makes zero sense.

Your thinking something must be better for no real reason. What kettle and toaster would trip a 15 amp circuit? There is no great problem your solving, if there was step one would be to upgrade to 20 amp instead of 15 amp with which no one is having a problem. Do you really think that every kitchen in the US has issues and we all keep running to reset our breakers? Plug your microwave in the same circuit with your kettle and toaster along with a small tv and your still not tripping it.

I don't get it. Unclear posts about things not even remotely relevant to the question and the uncontrollable desire to argue things you really don't know about.

 

[glenn property of pam]

Re: GFCI outlets question

its very rear to see a kettle in a american home so maybe it wouldnt add any safety to have seperate feeds in the kitchen.

 

[colbyt]

Re: GFCI outlets question

If one takes the time to look at the American code they will discover that:
at least 2-20 amp counter outlets
1- 15 or 20 dedicated for the fridge ( it might be 20 only)
1- 20amp dedicated for the microwave

are required to pass a modern inspection.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: GFCI outlets question

If one takes the time to look at the American code they will discover that:
at least 2-20 amp counter outlets
1- 15 or 20 dedicated for the fridge ( it might be 20 only)
1- 20amp dedicated for the microwave

are required to pass a modern inspection.

Neither require a GFCI right(Unless the microwave outlet is within 6' of a sink)?

 

[bigdee]

Re: GFCI outlets question

Neither require a GFCI right(Unless the microwave outlet is within 6' of a sink)?

All kitchen and dining receptacles in my jurisdiction are required to be GFCI EXCEPT the refrigerator IF it is BEHIND the refrigerator. I see frank's point on MWBC...it does allow you to plug in two heavy wattage appliances which is not possible with a standard outlet. Toaster ovens and electric pressure cookers,fry pans, griddles are usually 1500 watts and a 20 amp circuit will not support 2 of these appliances at the same time. NEC states distance from sink does not apply anymore....ALL counter top receptacles OR receptacles serving counter tops must be GFCI. Keep in mind though, the local inspection authority (not the NEC) has the power to expand these rules. I used to put all kitchen & dining receptacles on GFCI so I wouldn't get called back.

 

[colbyt]

Re: GFCI outlets question

Your initial post is way back there. Any outlet that is not dedicated and within 6' (6' here may be more in other places) must be GFI protected.

In my current home I have four counter outlets that must be protected. They are on 2 different circuits with 2 GFI and two are pass through protected.

Even though they are within 6' the separate disposal circuit and the dishwasher are not not protected since they dedicated and nothing can be plugged into them.

 

[Tim Frank]

Re: GFCI outlets question

What??? I asked you if you meant something because you weren't clear and then stated that if that was what you meant I didn't get the point.

In what way is that saying something before I knew what I was talking about? :facepalm:

Obviously I was thinking your unclear posting meant what it did, so that really makes zero sense..

I hope at least YOU understood that.

Your thinking something must be better for no real reason. What kettle and toaster would trip a 15 amp circuit? There is no great problem your solving, if there was step one would be to upgrade to 20 amp instead of 15 amp with which no one is having a problem. Do you really think that every kitchen in the US has issues and we all keep running to reset our breakers? Plug your microwave in the same circuit with your kettle and toaster along with a small tv and your still not tripping it.

Well, lets see....my kettle is rated at 1300 Watts...my toaster at 1100..... on a 15 A. circuit??? What version of Ohm's law are you using??....or add in the microwave (1200 W.) and the TV (negligible really) on a 20 A. circuit? Do the math...if you actually know how. :facepalm:
And then go reset the breaker or change the fuse.

I don't get it. .

That is abundantly clear.

 

[glenn property of pam]

Re: GFCI outlets question

i miss my 3kw kettle i wonder what code would say about a 220v receptical on the kitchen counter.

 

[Tim Frank]

Re: GFCI outlets question

i miss my 3kw kettle i wonder what code would say about a 220v receptical on the kitchen counter.

3 kW.? Wow.

It would probably say "By gum... ah bet you can make a cuppa char in two shakes with that rig, Guv'nor"

 

[glenn property of pam]

Re: GFCI outlets question

3 kW.? Wow.

It would probably say "By gum... ah bet you can make a cuppa char in two shakes with that rig, Guv'nor"

electric company was trying to ban high kw kettles in the uk as they claim that during half time of a major football (soccer) match the grid can not surport any more load. i say bar-hum-bug it will boil just as fast at 48 hertz as it does at 50.
american doc says 12-15 cups of tea and coffee a day is bad for you. i think he was refering to all the standing while waiting for the 110v kettle to boil.