general fuel question

Chucky P

Cadet
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Jul 24, 2004
Messages
26
Re: general fuel question

He got it going It Was theMercury saftey sw. (went to orange) Glad to here its running chuck.He Posted a different post
 

jdstephwacotx

Seaman
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Aug 16, 2004
Messages
53
Re: general fuel question

I haven't even got it apart yet. You must be thinking of someone else.<br /><br />I hope to try out all of your suggestions tonight.<br /><br />I'll let you know of any progress.<br /><br />But while we're at it. What is the mercury saftey switch?
 

Chucky P

Cadet
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Jul 24, 2004
Messages
26
Re: general fuel question

The mercury safety is next to switch box on motor (has all wires on it.) I'M sorry about the post my Mistake. Did You under stand what i was saying Chuck
 

Chucky P

Cadet
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Jul 24, 2004
Messages
26
Re: general fuel question

The safety stops your motor if it is Kicked or Raised all the way up . (round tube 3/4 round 1 1/2 long)SORRY AGAIN Chuck
 

jdstephwacotx

Seaman
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Aug 16, 2004
Messages
53
Re: general fuel question

GOOD NEWS....GOOD NEWS!!!! (I think....or at least hope!)<br /><br /><br />I put new gaskets in the fuel pump, took carbs completely apart and sprayed them out good, put everything back together and replaced fuel lines between all of it.<br /><br />I got it running and now I'm following the decarb process described in the FAQ. I won't be able to get it out to the lake until later this week.<br /><br />It is going into gear much better and not dying but now it won't stay running at idle. I think this is just my tuning of the carbs. I'm not quite clear on how to do this because I don't have a tach. The book says to adjust them in gear until they sound good but when i think they sound good it will still die if I bring it back to neutral.<br /><br />Now, before I get too excited....I never ran it in the driveway before so I don't know if it would have ran in gear before this way and only under load did it have a problem or if indeed I have fixed it (at least somewhat).<br /><br />Thank you all for your input but please answer one last thing. What is the best way to tune the carb mixture by ear? Do I get it to sound right in neutral and then in gear? Or in gear first then neutral.<br /><br />Also, what does the idle screw on the side of the engine with the throttle arms have to do with all this. I see it in the manual but it doesn't really describe its function.<br /><br />Thanks again for all your past and future help. If I have this thing running smoothly (and cheaply) by duck season I'll be the envy of my one and only friend.
 

zantz

Seaman Apprentice
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Aug 24, 2004
Messages
49
Re: general fuel question

Idle screw on the side is to adjust the stop for the throttle.<br /><br />I would suggest getting it "tuned by ear" first in neutral. Adjust the mixture screws in slowly until it starts to spit, cough, sputter and die. Then back the screws out 1/8 of a turn. This should be very close to the correct mixture setting. Then put it in gear.<br /><br />You may have to play with it a little to get it just right, it's more of an art than an exact science.
 

jdstephwacotx

Seaman
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Aug 16, 2004
Messages
53
Re: general fuel question

I'm not sure I understand. If it is a 'stop' wouldn't that imply a max setting? Why would they call it a 'idle' screw?
 

zantz

Seaman Apprentice
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Aug 24, 2004
Messages
49
Re: general fuel question

If you think of it as this: <br />The butterfly valve closes all the way and very little air-gas mixture gets in, slow engine speed. If you adjust the idle screw it prevents the butterfly from closing all the way and more air-gas mixture gets in and increases the engine speed. So therefore, it's not a max setting, it's a minimum setting. The more you adjust it to open the butterfly valve, the higher the idle.
 

jdstephwacotx

Seaman
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Aug 16, 2004
Messages
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Re: general fuel question

Great explanation Zantz, thanks.<br /><br />UPDATE.....<br /><br />I took it out to the lake finally to check out my mechanical prowess. In a word (or two) I SUCK AT THIS!!<br /><br />It sounded better than before and it would run with a bit more throttle than before but once you committed to go all the way it died. Now, I could distinctly hear a little more cough or sputter before it died than before so that makes me think that it is more of a mixture or setting issue than the short that we talked about before.<br /><br />I need to play with the carbs a little more. I kept trying to adjust them each time it died and I finally wore my battery out and drifted across the lake for about 15 minutes before finally getting a tow back to the dock.<br /><br />Once again though, I found (after the battery was dead) that the bottom carb was not opening. That little connector between the two carbs came unhooked again. Could this be the only problem? Or on just one carb should it still throttle up and maybe just not perform just right? <br /><br /><br />Before I noticed this, while I was puttering, I went back to the motor and flipped the throttle on the top of the carb with my screwdriver and it reved up further. I couldn't do this much obviously because I was by myself. <br /><br />The next time I can put it on the hose in the driveway I'm going to disconnect the throttle from the bottom carb and see what kind of difference it makes and see if I can duplicate the problem without the load.<br /><br />With the throttle lever barely forward in gear, if you go back and rev it with the screwdriver, should the boat lurch forward? Or does the lever going more and more forward affect more than just the RPM?<br /><br /><br />Any and all help greatly appreciated.
 

zantz

Seaman Apprentice
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Aug 24, 2004
Messages
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Re: general fuel question

You're making progress! :) <br /><br />Yes, the bottom carb not opening will make a big difference. Basically, with the bottom butterfly not opening, you are only running on one cylinder. <br /><br />The throttle lever also changes the timing as it opens the butterfly (long word, I'm shortening it BF for this post), therefore just flipping the BF open with a screwdriver would not have the same effect as using the lever.<br /><br /> I have a question to pose to one of the experts in here: <br />Is there a sync-n-link procedure on a Merc like there is on an Evinrude?<br /><br />JD, the reason I ask that question is:<br />with the BF in the vertical-closed position you have no flow (actually just very little), with the BF in the horizontal-open position you have max flow. The BF has the ability to go past horizontal, if it does, you are no longer at Wide Open Throttle (WOT).<br />Does that make sense?
 

jdstephwacotx

Seaman
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Aug 16, 2004
Messages
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Re: general fuel question

Yes that makes sense. As I try to drive and look back at my motor with the cowl and everything off I can see that where it is cutting out is before the BF's are noticibly open at all. The are probably cracked but not that you can see from the front of the boat.<br /><br />Why only one cylinder and not two? Hopefully replacing that little connector will do the trick.<br /><br />Also, from reading other posts around here I tried to pump the choke a couple of times while it was trying to die and it would make a small difference. Not like it all of a sudden wanted to take off or anything but certainly like a little extra gas was helping the cause. I tried to pump the fuel ball but doing that while trying to hold the throttle as far as it would go without dying and drive proved to be a little more than I could handle.
 

zantz

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Re: general fuel question

The reason for only one cylinder is;<br />If you can imagine 2 "one" cylinder engine go-karts, hooked together. If you open the throttle on one and not the other, one is doing all the work, the other is just dead weight.<br />If only 1 BF is open and the other is closed, it's the same thing.<br /><br />I know how hard it is to try and drive and troubleshoot.<br /><br />Now that you've made some adjustments, it sounds like you have throttle hesitation. I saw somewhere in the forum some good advice on how to solve this. We should look around, I know the answer is out there.
 

jdstephwacotx

Seaman
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Aug 16, 2004
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Re: general fuel question

But this is a 4 cylinder so shouln't it be two are working and 2 aren't?<br /><br />Regardless, it ain't right so I'll keep working on it.<br /><br />On the hose, it probably won't die because of the lack of load but should I be able to hear the difference between using just the top carb and then both carbs?<br /><br /><br />When this happens are the two pistons that are not getting fuel just being moved up and down by the other two turning the crank by themselves? Is this why they overload and die?
 

Clams Canino

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Jan 10, 2004
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2,179
Re: general fuel question

Just find the tang on the top carb that the distributor hits to open the carbs. Open the top carb by hand and observe what the bottom one is up to. (engine not running)<br /><br />Assuming they are both opening together, try opening the idle needles another 1/4 turn. The inlines often fall on thier face when spooling up if that mixture is too lean. <br /><br />I just did one yesterday and observed that when set to idle in gear (on the trailer at the boat ramp) if I closed each screw to the point where the motor stumbled and then backed off 1/2 turn it would idle great, however, it needed yet another 1/4 turn out to get an acceptable hole-shot. Another 1/4 turn out from that and the hole shot was better - but it would start to load up if idling for extended time. So your true margin of error is only about 1/4 turn for optimal results.<br /><br />-W
 

zantz

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Aug 24, 2004
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Re: general fuel question

You are correct about the other 2 cylinders. They are just being moved by the top 2.<br /><br />Clams has some good advice.<br /><br />Yes, you should be able to tell the difference on the hose with 1 carb and then both carbs.
 

jdstephwacotx

Seaman
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Aug 16, 2004
Messages
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Re: general fuel question

OK, new update....<br /><br />I went ahead and replaced the connector between the carbs. I ran it on the hose and she opens up wide just like before.<br /><br />I took her to the ramp and hung her in the water and she still kills once the butterflies try to open more than about 1/8". This happens either with the throttle lever or if I am opening them manually at the engine.<br /><br />I tried several mixture screw settings both at idle and revved up slightly just to see if I could ever get the RPM up any further. No luck.<br /><br />I did notice that at idle up until it dies I can't visably see the fuel spraying from the venturi. When I run it on the hose, just after the butterflies get past where she dies in the water, I can see a definite mist of fuel. Should this spray start ealier? Or should I not see it until then?<br /><br />It almost seems as if somewhere between the 1/8" of opening and about a 1/2" of opening she is starving for fuel and therefore under load she dies but on the hose she can get past it and keep going. But I don't know enough about engines to be sure.<br /><br />As soon as I can find a timing light I'm going to check that. I played with the spark advance lever while I throttled in different ranges to see if I could hear anything that might lead me to belive that it might be the cause and I couldn't tell but I figure I might as well check it anyway.<br /><br />If the sticker is worn off the flywheel, how do you know what mark to line up on the flywheel?
 

JasonJ

Rear Admiral
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Aug 20, 2001
Messages
4,163
Re: general fuel question

One thing I would like to mention is that you can fry the rectifier if you unplug the motor while running. It is possible that the advance is not working properly/out of adjustment. 2 strokes work on advancing ignition, throttle plates closed, when accelerating. Past a certain point after the ignition has advanced, then throttle plates begin to open while ignition continues to advance. If the ignition is not advancing initially or at all, it will fall on its face.
 

Clams Canino

Commander
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Jan 10, 2004
Messages
2,179
Re: general fuel question

See my timing and sync post. <br /><br />After you go through all that, if all else fails you need to see if it's overpropped.<br /><br />-W
 
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