Gel Coat application

[Tail_Gunner]

After a great deal of reading, i have come to the conclusion to use gel coat to repaint ( err refinish) my boat. This is purley from a longevity view and final finish quality.<br /><br /> What i would really like to know is how to apply the finish, aka roll it out or spray it out. with that said if i am going to spray this finish can i use a HVLP Paint Sprayer? And if i roll it out will that create needles sanding to level the caoting<br /><br /> Looks like this is the product that i am going to use http://www.jamestowndistributors.co...,Paints,Gel.Coats,White.and.Neutral.Gel.Coats any experienced input would be appreciated.

 

[surlyjoe]

Re: Gel Coat application

spraying is what your gonna want to do, otherwise finishing it will be a nightmare. is it gonna be all sparkly? I have never tried an HVLP, bu I cant see why it wouldnt work.

 

[flashback]

Re: Gel Coat application

Hi TG, first off, I'am no expert! I have done numerous repairs where I have sprayed gelcoat on a small area. In all cases I have always had to go back and wetsand and buff the patch. I have never been able to get the gelcoat to flow or go on smooth like paint. the reason is you cannot thin it enough. That being said, I would not want to do an entire boat that way... but maybe some of the other folks here have a good way to do it.. on the other hand, I also have had good results rolling large non-skid areas with gelcoat.<br /> my personal preference would be to paint the boat with Imron or Algrip epoxy paint...

 

[Tail_Gunner]

Re: Gel Coat application

At this point im pretty sure im gel coating,yes it would be nice to lay in some flake if that is the defintion. However finding the right tip,and the type of gun to use is my highest priority,i am really trying to control cost and experimenting is usually time consuming and costly.<br /><br />Flashback when you sprayed the gel what type of gun did you use and did you play around with tip sizes? Iam sure the tip size and pressure is key to the unaformity to the layering. Also reducing the amount of finish sanding.Just dont know if a HVLP is gonna have enough uniform pressure to apply gel coat and do the cap sprayers function the same ie avaible tip selections. Anyone have a comment?

 

[flounderman]

Re: Gel Coat application

Contact FIBERLAY in SEATTLE, look up their website and call the 1-800#. Dura-tec is a good product to use as an additive to your gel-cote. Good luck, Jerry

 

[flashback]

Re: Gel Coat application

I used a 1 qt. pressureized (not suction type)binks cup gun with about 50 lbs pressure and a larger tip than I use for paint. I thin the gel with styrene (not acetone) and not too much styrene as it seems to make the gel porous. be sure to clean the gun and don't let it start to kick off in the gun if you have an old car hood or frig to practice on it probably would help. good luck, and let us know how you come out..

 

[tr918]

Re: Gel Coat application

I have been thinking about redoing my boat in gel also. Here are a few sites that I have been using for product/supply research: fibreglast.com and shopmaninc.com <br /><br />Both are fiberglass supply sites/stores. There are rules about posting direct links.. Just add the www to the sites listed.<br /><br />Please post what you decide to do and how you do it. <br /><br />Thanks<br />-TR

 

[Tail_Gunner]

Re: Gel Coat application

Ive been in contact with fiberlay,they were very informative and provided me with quite of bit of info. The answer to my first question is yes gel can be shot with a HVLP Paint Sprayer,and what is critical is the tip size on the cap sprayer. If i cannot find a large enough tip i will use a airless sprayer however i dont see that as a problem<br /><br /> I was also told that that in addition to gel coat they also use another type of resign along with a thinning hardener that will increase viscosity of the coating, What is intresting they have a clear gel coat that will allow one to first apply a base color gel then allowing one to use clear gel introducing pearl or metal flake's. <br /><br /> However this would be a very labor intensive project, i am assuming that one apply's and finish's (sanded and polished) the orignal gel coat color then apply's the clear with flake's or pearl,then finishing with clear top coat and refinishing (sanding) to a beautiful high luster finish<br /><br /> Now if i had some type of rack that would allow me a quick 360 degree acess to the boat i might consider doing a complete pearl finish, however just doing the stripping may not be to big of task.

 

[Bondo]

Re: Gel Coat application

However this would be a very labor intensive project, i am assuming that one apply's and finish's (sanded and polished) the orignal gel coat color then apply's the clear with flake's or pearl,then finishing with clear top coat and refinishing (sanding) to a beautiful high luster finish

1st off,..... I'm Not a Painter...........<br /><br />But,.... I've shot Awhole Bunch of Stuff threw several of my Guns...............<br />My experince with Gelcoat is Limited,..... I've had such Great Luck with 2 part Ureathanes,..... I see No Need for Gelcoat......<br /><br />Anyway,........The Quote.....<br />I would Think that the Layers in this scenario would play out with Just a Fine Light Sanding,..... Just to knock off the dust, bugs, etc., before the Next layer would be Shot.......<br /><br />I'd Think that it would be just like Basecoat/ Clearcoat Paints,....... <br />No Polishing Required........Until the Shootings Over Anyways...........

 

[Tail_Gunner]

Re: Gel Coat application

I have no experience with gel-coat my self, however i know its not a self leveling resign. With that said it seems only reasonable to me that a highly polished base coat(lets say white) would be needed. Laying down a metal flake or a pearl on top on high polished white would create a deep luster i would think. Where as a non polished surface layerd with flake in my mind would would lack luster.<br /><br /> This is new ground for me,if anyone has experience with gel coats comments would be great. It was surprising to know that the clear is a gel coat resin,leading me to assume that it to needs to be polished to defract the pearl or flake properly.

 

[ondarvr]

Re: Gel Coat application

First, is there a reason you want to use gel coat?<br />It is very labor intensive compared to a 2 part PU and will fade and lose it's gloss sooner. If you want to restore it and have it look original, then it's worth it (maybe). For a first attempt forget the metal flake it's just too hard to get it right, even for somebody that has experiance. It will be faster, easier and cost less to go with a 2 part paint.<br /><br />Now if you still want to use gel coat we can go through all the steps, just let us know.

 

[Tail_Gunner]

Re: Gel Coat application

I believe it is a polyester resign based application, which is very similar to say varnishing and in that area i have a good understanding of how to build a finished product.<br /><br />It is also my understanding that the final product is far more durable and forgiving than paint,as to prep there will be less from a stand point of the thickness of the application its self from what i have read gel coat is 25- 30 mils in depth covering lots of imperfection's and lending its self to a much smoother aka luster finish.<br /><br />This i know the actual application will be far less tedious than tip and rolling unless i'm really missing something (i was a wood finish sprayer for years) I am also aware that it will take more time to sand down the final finish.<br /><br />In the end i guess it what your comfortable with, either way its work and the greatest benefit i can see from gel coat is, it more durable, its eaiser to repair (i have 3 teenager's) and the final product should be a better finish quailty.( unless one spend's a lot of prep time)<br /><br />The area's that iam most curious about is the viscosity of the gel, the thinning agents to use ( there are a varity) the temp's that create the best leveling and the drying quality's. From my experience with resign based product's these are the key's to success.<br /><br />I could be way off here but the more i read the more comfortable i am with the product. I will not be shooting the hull with a pearl of flake but i am going to experiment with pearl for striping,who know's where that is going. Anybody experinced with the tip's and thinning technic's your comments would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Chief101]

Re: Gel Coat application

gelcoat doesn't level, that's where the labor starts, at the wetsanding and buffing of the entire job. I think that's what ondavr is getting at.

 

[Tail_Gunner]

Re: Gel Coat application

Yes i am very much aware of that,from what i have read both applications require prep. However much more prep is need to paint, after all remeber painting is the "final" finish. It's very thin and will magnify any imperfection's,where as gel is maybe 5 times thicker and much more forgiving.(its a filler as well as finish)<br /><br /> With that said prep for shooting the gel is my question, tips size,temps,thinning agents, humidiy levels. These are all the keys i am sure to creating a very level finish,in hot varnsihing vs cold (and tip sizing) you'd be astonished on the quality of the final finish. I am asking and searching out tips and technic's for preping the gel and sprayer types. For now i believe i am going to use a airless sprayer,it should be able to control the gel more uniformly (constant pressure less atomization). I 'am trying to get as level and uniform of a application as i can,and with no experience with the gel i am asking for experiences.

 

[Chief101]

Re: Gel Coat application

Sounds like you will do the gelcoat no matter what so you will have to experiment. I repair gelcoat a lot and for a small patch I will spray thinned gelcoat with an airbrush, still needs to be wetsanded and buffed. For the gelcoat to get a grip on the existing work you will need to sand the base to 80 grit at least. Just some thoughts to start with.

 

[BrettNC]

Re: Gel Coat application

You will have to wet sand the entire boat a few times for it to look new. And then polish twice. I've attempted gel-coating a small area of my project several times with a gun. You will probably get better, faster results with a polyurethane paint. If you are laying up a new hull in a mold, then by all means, use gelcoat.

 

[surlyjoe]

Re: Gel Coat application

you can do it, bu tanything coming from a spray gun is not going to fill the imperfections. you can put lots on and sand them, but better to start with a smooth surface. if its unwaxed, no need to sand betwwen coats, and I would suggest spraying PVA on the last thing and skipping the wax, in case you need to touch up snad throughs<br /><br />we sprayed it from a pressure pot, no special nozzle, just up the tank pressure, airless would prolly work great. and we thinned it with styrene. as brett says, once you get enough clear on, you will have to wet sand and buff the whole thing.

 

[brownies]

Re: Gel Coat application

Never seen a gelcoat boat/kit car/anything hold up any better than a good quality paint.<br /> I can see a person patching some imperfections (cuts, scrapes, holes, gouges) with gelcoat. "That" in order to make the repair look like the rest of the boat.<br /> I sure can't see a person wanting to gelcoat the whole thing though. That's pure torture.

 

[brownies]

Re: Gel Coat application

How large of an area will you be refinishing?<br />Rather than jump in head first and outa money, do this.<br /> Order what you think you will need to cover half a sheet of plywood (4'x4'). The cost of what you will be doing will be FAR less than refinishing your boat.<br /> Experiment by applying colors to the plywood and rolling, spraying on the gelcoat. Then experiment with sanding (colorsanding/blocking/wetsanding/buffing).<br /> When you finally get the results your were looking for, take a soft clotch and lay it on the finish, hand palm down on the cloth and "feel" for slight waves, dips, etc. IF you find them, grab the sandpaper, water, hose, and get back to it. (that kind of stuff will show and look bad on a boat).<br /> Then, when you obtain that result that you can live with. Figure up how much area the boat is, with curves in it, and decide if it's worth it to proceed.<br /> If you do not achieve the results you were looking for, think of the money and time you saved.<br /> It's just a 4x4 board. You can put several colors, with flakes, no flakes, etc on the board. (one corner red, one blue, and so on)..Then cover the whole thing with gelcoat.<br /> It's MUCH cheaper and will let you know what type of work is involved and what you can do underneath the gelcoat.<br /> It may also save you money. You may find it does not need to be as thick as you planned? Which would save you money when buying for the whole boat.

 

[samsam]

Re: Gel Coat application

Where I once worked they used to use this stuff to spray gelcoat on the outside of hulls to come out pretty smooth.It's an additive that is mixed into the gelcoat.<br /> http://www.duratec1.com/dp05.html <br />The gel time is 15-20 minutes. You have that much time (maybe, depending on the temperature) to catylize and thoroughly mix the gelcoat, spray it and then completely dismantle your sprayer and thoroughly clean everything the gelcoat touched. Just running a solvent through it won't be good enough, you have to clean it completely. Then repeat this as many times as it takes to finish your boat. If you let too much time elapse between pots, the new coat will severely alligator the last one. Here's their troubleshooting guide...<br /> http://www.duratec1.com/ts13-15.html <br />There are some other products like this that maybe work better but I don't remember the names. <br />Is your boat worth the effort? Sometimes things sound easier and more fun than they turn out to be. In an hour or two most boats can be buffed and polished back to a respectable gleam for 20 dollars, have you considered buffing it? Good luck, post some pictures and how it went. Sam