Gas Issues

[bronzingman]

Put my boat in last week, ran about a half mile and the engine started sputtering and quit. I tried re-starting it and it would idle for a few seconds and quit. Finally, it wouldn't fire at all. I used my trolling motor to get back to my house and put it on the lift. Thinking it was water in the gas, I siphoned about a quart off the bottom of my 35 gallon take. I have attached 2 pictures. First one after sitting 15 minutes. Second one after sitting overnight. Any ideas? When adding gas, I always add Marine Sta-bil.

 

[mike_i]

Are you able to drain that junk out of the tank? What motor is this? Do you use a 10 micron fuel/water filter? Check/clean or replace all fuel filters.

 

[bronzingman]

Are you able to drain that junk out of the tank? What motor is this? Do you use a 10 micron fuel/water filter? Check/clean or replace all fuel filters.

I would have to siphon it out. It's a 35 gallon tank. The motor is a Yamaha 150 4 stroke. Not sure what the fuel filter is. I had all filters replaced last year my boat mechanic. I did check the fuel bowl and there was no trash in it at all.

 

[JASinIL2006]

I think it would be generous to refer to that liquid as 'gas'.

 

[bronzingman]

I'm just going to siphon out the 25 gallons that are in the tank, change the fuel filter and start over with fresh gas.

 

[Scott Danforth]

how old is your fuel? Stabil only works for adding a few extra months

 

[bronzingman]

I continually add fuel to the tank, usually 10 gallons at the time. I haven't run the boat for about 6 weeks, but I've gone months without running it and never had an issue. Do you know what that "separation" line is halfway between the top half of the fuel and the bottom half?

 

[Scott Danforth]

Do you know what that "separation" line is halfway between the top half of the fuel and the bottom half?

phase separation - water and alcohol separating from the petroleum

 

[bronzingman]

So what do I need to do? Drain and start over or is there something I can add to the fuel so that I can run it?

 

[nola mike]

I'll get flack for this, but you can siphon some from the bottom. That's where all the water is. Do this in manageable batches (2 gallons at a time maybe). Let it separate. Take as much water as you can off the bottom and discard. You should now have only gas. Repeat drawing from the tank until you aren't getting water anymore. You can do what you want with the drawn out gas, I mix it in small batches with good gas. Disconnect fuel line from engine. Run fuel pump and direct fuel line into container to purge line of water. Again, repeat until you have no separation. Change your fuel filter. Caveats:
1. You may or may not have taken all the ethanol out of your fuel. This may lower your octane rating
2. If this was bad gas (old gas) to begin with, it will still be bad.
3. I would mix whatever's left with fresh gas
4. I would not use the remaining gas if there's a ton left. Most I would do is 1-2 gallons old: 5 gallons new
5. There's nothing scientific about any of the above

 

[dingbat]

Had a similar situation several years ago.

I had just burned through 200 gallons of fuel the weekend before in a tournament. Stopped and put 50 gallons of fuel in the main tank on the way to the ramp.

Put the boat in the water and ran about 3 miles when the sputtering began. Fortunately, I have a Racor separator with the bottom drain. Was able to drain enough water to get back to the dock.

At this point, you have to assume the water came from the filling station tanks. Took the boat home and siphoned a 1/2 gallon or so of water off the bottom of the tank.

Took it out the following weekend. Didn't make it out of the inlet this time. No way.....not a drop of water in the tank just 5 days earlier.

Long story, but it turned out my self-venting gas cap was leaking.
We have had a lot of rain over the past couple of weeks. To make matters worst, the boat is sitting ever so slightly off level allowing water to puddle in the recess surrounding the fill

Called my mfg. customer support who confirmed it was a known problem. Gave me the Perko part number for a spacer (3/8") to raise the cap about the recess. Problem solved.

Siphon process:
1. Remove the level sensor from tank
2. Raise the front of boat as high as you can get it
3. Put end of hose in catch can sitting on ground
4. Use flexible copper "wand" inside tank
5. Pump primer bulb to start siphon
6. Vacuum the water off the bottom of the tank
7. Start motor and let run to pull "fresh" fuel through the filter
8. Drain or replace filter (if needed)
9. Add fresh E10
10. Go boating...

Materials for Siphon rig....
1 -36" lg, 3/8" OD flexible copper tubing (none sparking for use inside fuel tank)
1 - 24" lg, 3/8" plastic tubing, clear
1 - 3/8" primer bulb
1 - 72" lg, 3/8" fuel line
3 - 3/8" hose clamps
1 - Catch Can

 

[Scott Danforth]

I'll get flack for this, but you can siphon some from the bottom. That's where all the water is. Do this in manageable batches (2 gallons at a time maybe). Let it separate. Take as much water as you can off the bottom and discard. You should now have only gas. Repeat drawing from the tank until you aren't getting water anymore. You can do what you want with the drawn out gas, I mix it in small batches with good gas. Disconnect fuel line from engine. Run fuel pump and direct fuel line into container to purge line of water. Again, repeat until you have no separation. Change your fuel filter. Caveats:
1. You may or may not have taken all the ethanol out of your fuel. This may lower your octane rating
2. If this was bad gas (old gas) to begin with, it will still be bad.
3. I would mix whatever's left with fresh gas
4. I would not use the remaining gas if there's a ton left. Most I would do is 1-2 gallons old: 5 gallons new
5. There's nothing scientific about any of the above

nothing wrong with removing the water from the tank

done it many times

however you are correct with #2

 

[Lectro88]

I'll get flack for this, but you can siphon some from the bottom. That's where all the water is. Do this in manageable batches (2 gallons at a time maybe). Let it separate. Take as much water as you can off the bottom and discard. You should now have only gas. Repeat drawing from the tank until you aren't getting water anymore. You can do what you want with the drawn out gas, I mix it in small batches with good gas. Disconnect fuel line from engine. Run fuel pump and direct fuel line into container to purge line of water. Again, repeat until you have no separation. Change your fuel filter. Caveats:
1. You may or may not have taken all the ethanol out of your fuel. This may lower your octane rating
2. If this was bad gas (old gas) to begin with, it will still be bad.
3. I would mix whatever's left with fresh gas
4. I would not use the remaining gas if there's a ton left. Most I would do is 1-2 gallons old: 5 gallons new
5. There's nothing scientific about any of the above

Maybe less flack than you think.

You started out on the right track when you drew out and let the gas and water separate.
Just pour the gas off the top and be sure not to let water slip un-noticed along the bottom as you pour. (don't slosh while you pour)pour nice and slow, steady and easy.
Also the gas on top should not be cloudy, if it is, its still contaminated... let it sit and settle. give it time to clear up. hours if needed.
Again don't go sloshing it around after its separated.
Not knowing the separation line you questioned earlier, tells me you haven't done this before.
The gas is on top... So the first thing your pickup tube draws out of tank is water on the bottom. You got to get the water out and keep it out.
Not sure if this is years condensation or sitting too much or if you got bad gas at the pump. RARE but it can happen.
I am careful pouring from jugs/fuel cans, as I have had water accumulate again on bottom or last bit of pour be water.
Ethanol just seems to draw water to me, I could be wrong. But I have encountered this enough that I am watchful of it.

You may fight this Demon a while until you get all or most of the water out.
Expect a few filters sacrificed in the mean time.
Not sure how your tank is set up or you access ability or if you're able to see in the tank.
I don't envy your task ahead, But there's worse and better to be done.

 

[Bondo]

Ayuh,..... I do like nola Mike,....
Pull the water off the bottom, let it separate, 'n salvage the gas off the top,....
Also agree, nothin' will "Fix" bad gas,....

 

[bronzingman]

Had a similar situation several years ago.

I had just burned through 200 gallons of fuel the weekend before in a tournament. Stopped and put 50 gallons of fuel in the main tank on the way to the ramp.

Put the boat in the water and ran about 3 miles when the sputtering began. Fortunately, I have a Racor separator with the bottom drain. Was able to drain enough water to get back to the dock.

At this point, you have to assume the water came from the filling station tanks. Took the boat home and siphoned a 1/2 gallon or so of water off the bottom of the tank.

Took it out the following weekend. Didn't make it out of the inlet this time. No way.....not a drop of water in the tank just 5 days earlier.

Long story, but it turned out my self-venting gas cap was leaking.
We have had a lot of rain over the past couple of weeks. To make matters worst, the boat is sitting ever so slightly off level allowing water to puddle in the recess surrounding the fill

Called my mfg. customer support who confirmed it was a known problem. Gave me the Perko part number for a spacer (3/8") to raise the cap about the recess. Problem solved.

Siphon process:
1. Remove the level sensor from tank
2. Raise the front of boat as high as you can get it
3. Put end of hose in catch can sitting on ground
4. Use flexible copper "wand" inside tank
5. Pump primer bulb to start siphon
6. Vacuum the water off the bottom of the tank
7. Start motor and let run to pull "fresh" fuel through the filter
8. Drain or replace filter (if needed)
9. Add fresh E10
10. Go boating...

Materials for Siphon rig....
1 -36" lg, 3/8" OD flexible copper tubing (none sparking for use inside fuel tank)
1 - 24" lg, 3/8" plastic tubing, clear
1 - 3/8" primer bulb
1 - 72" lg, 3/8" fuel line
3 - 3/8" hose clamps
1 - Catch Can

I was told that this could be a problem, but my boat is on a lift under a boathouse. Rain never gets to the boat, so I'm thinking it came from the gas station. I'll try the siphoning process and see how that works.

 

[Douglasdzaster]

I’m lucky I have access to none ethanol fuel.
Check out a product called Star Tron marine HD. It keeps fuel fresh and helps prevent phase separation and does some cleaning too. I started using it even though I run none ethanol about 6 months ago. The 1992 Yamaha is running better than ever and this was a motor I got a year ago and had to do all kinds of work to. Never could get it to run as smooth as I wanted. Now it runs great as well as all my lawn and garden machines. I use the Star Tron marine HD. Just a couple of cap fulls in my little tank. I was using Seafoam marine but this stuff is better by far IMO. I didn’t have a lot of faith in what some call snake oils even though I was using Seafoam but this stuff I can tell a difference.

 

[bronzingman]

I’m lucky I have access to none ethanol fuel.
Check out a product called Star Tron marine HD. It keeps fuel fresh and helps prevent phase separation and does some cleaning too. I started using it even though I run none ethanol about 6 months ago. The 1992 Yamaha is running better than ever and this was a motor I got a year ago and had to do all kinds of work to. Never could get it to run as smooth as I wanted. Now it runs great as well as all my lawn and garden machines. I use the Star Tron marine HD. Just a couple of cap fulls in my little tank. I was using Seafoam marine but this stuff is better by far IMO. I didn’t have a lot of faith in what some call snake oils even though I was using Seafoam but this stuff I can tell a difference.

 

[bronzingman]

I'll check that out. Yesterday, I was looking at some information regarding using E10 gas versus non-ethanol gas in a outboard and saw something from Mercury Marine that said "E10 may actually be a superior marine fuel, as it tends to keep low levels of water moving through the fuel system, keeping the system “dry”." I had never heard that before. It also said to keep your tank full to avoid condensation, which I have heard but don't always do. Now I'm really confused. All I've been hearing is to ONLY run non-ethanol in your boat.

 

[racerone]

The air above the river / lake has more water in it than air above your driveway 10 miles from the lake.-----So if boat is kept at a dock ( more condensation in the tank ) you need a good water separating filter.

 

[bronzingman]

Yes, mine is kept on a boat lift in my boat house. I'm going to get a good water separating system put on my boat.