Fuel Pump Obsolete

[VisionIsle]

Re: Fuel Pump Obsolete

Also, the main cam bolt was tightened to 55lbs at least, could overtightening cause a problem with the distributor gear or cam journals being off by fractions?

 

[Maclin]

Re: Fuel Pump Obsolete

There is some method used to keep the cam from walking forward, there is a natural tendency for it to do this as it is driven by the chain and gears. A button spacer behind a holding plate is normal, but I do not know how your engine is setup for this. If something is not right regarding this then the cam can move around and will try to walk out the front of the block. This will cause a misalignment with anything being driven by the cam. I suppose this walking forward could be causing whatever the distributor is driven by to move up some and try to push the distributor shaft up too far. This is TOTAL conjecture on my part, you may need to call in the cavalry on this one.

Cam breaking, it can happen, but anything after the break would not work because that part of the shaft would not be turning at all. I have seen an engine that snapped a rod due to timing being way off and the piece of the rod still on the crank swung around and snapped the camshaft right at the end at the rear of the engine. That engine would start and idle but any throttle at all and it would die, and as you can imagine it was very noisy as well. The rockers at the last two cylinders were not operating as they were "after the break". This was a big block MoPar so the distributor and oil pump drive were on the front of the cam and still operating as if all was well.

 

[VisionIsle]

Re: Fuel Pump Obsolete

Today I did my own compression test, here are the results.
1=160
2=142
3=158
4=160
5=160
6=142
7=115
8=135

Notice #7 Not a good sign

The other thing I found out today. The old distributor now needs a good sized washer for when I try to tighten it that is when the problem starts. Why before the eccentric failing and us changing out the timing gears did the distributor not require a gasket. It is now obviously bottoming out. It runs great when the distributor bolt is loose enough to adjust for timing, but as soon as I begin to tighten it down it boggs down and
then as soon as I give it gas it dies. Wierd?

so what do you suggest I do about the number 7 cylinder?

Also today I ran the engine to 3400 RPM , no crazy sounds or anything as far as the cam being broken, woulndt I have heard something at that rate?

I ran it at 1200RPM for 15 minutes and I think I could have taken her out. What are your thoughts?

 

[Maclin]

Re: Fuel Pump Obsolete

Again, I am not familiar with that engine...but if the distributor has a gear towards the bottom but not right at the bottom of the shaft, and there is a length of shaft after the gear then that part may go into or over the oil pump shaft. The gear on the distributor shaft meshes with the drive gear on the camshaft and then would drive both items. If it cannot fit all the way into or over the oil pump shaft then it could be bottoming out too soon. THIS IS A GUESS, I have never been into a Ford small block. This MAY be how the oil pump is driven, and if so then something MAY have happened to the oil pump drive that is causing the distributor shaft to hit before it can seat properly. There could be debris inside the distributor shaft if it goes over the oil pump shaft, or if it fits inside the oil pump shaft there could be debris in the oil pump shaft.

 

[VisionIsle]

Re: Fuel Pump Obsolete

When I removed the distibutor the last time to install the washer the shaft from the oil pump actually came out with the distributor. I carefully put it back in place and was able to remove the distributor again and the shaft stayed. I ran the engine after that for 20 minutes and the oil pressure remained between 40-50 depending on RPM.
Does anyone know how the shaft is assembled in the oil pump? And what that may mean?
Thanks Maclan for trying to help me. Anyone else work on a 351wFORD???

 

[Coors]

Re: Fuel Pump Obsolete

It just slides in, nothing holds it in.

 

[VisionIsle]

Re: Fuel Pump Obsolete

Great Coors, thats a relief. Whats your take on the distributor now needing a washer or 2?

 

[Maclin]

Re: Fuel Pump Obsolete

Last evening I was going to suggest that you poke around on some Ford sites and ask some questions, so I googled up "Ford 351 Distributor" and "Ford 351 oil pump shaft" things like that to see what would happen and found some stuff, so I do suggest you do the same.

I found a few posts on a Ford site that mentioned a clip that is supposed to be on the bottom of the oil pump shaft to keep it from coming out with the distributor. I guessed from those posts that the shaft should only be put in one way with the clip at the bottom and it sounded like it can only be put in properly that way with the oil pump removed which requires moving the pan.

I bet something happened when that shaft came out and you put it back in, it is not all the way in or something. Do some Ford 351 V8 research and you should find the solution.

 

[Maclin]

Re: Fuel Pump Obsolete

Look closely at the oil pump shaft to see if it is symmetrical or if it is different in any way regarding the ends of the shaft.

Also, the reason I believe that the engine starts running bad when you try to get the distributor down all the way is that the distributor shaft orientation is changing as the gears mesh, this will move the timing one way or the other.

 

[VisionIsle]

Re: Fuel Pump Obsolete

Is it possible for a new timing gear set to change the way the worm gear (on the cam) drives in connection to the distributor gear? That could be the reason why both the new and old distributor cause binding when tightened completely.

Have you ever had to break in a new timing chain set with an old distributor? Does that even make sense?

 

[Coors]

Re: Fuel Pump Obsolete

Is it possible for a new timing gear set to change the way the worm gear (on the cam) drives in connection to the distributor gear? That could be the reason why both the new and old distributor cause binding when tightened completely.

Have you ever had to break in a new timing chain set with an old distributor? Does that even make sense?

All the time. I think you messed something up on the timing chain install.

 

[Maclin]

Re: Fuel Pump Obsolete

Regarding the current problem, I believe it started when the oil pump shaft came out with the distributor. Something was already not quite right to allow that to happen, and when the oil pump shaft was put back in it is not seated properly in the oil pump. Maybe the clip is in the way now, not sure, but I am sure that the new cam and gears and chain would not require that a new distributor also be installed.

Find a Ford hotrod board and make some friends there.

 

[Coors]

Re: Fuel Pump Obsolete

If the shaft came out, it will drop right back in.
Something is strange here. even if pushing the dist in further changes the timing(which it will), turning the dist should help.

At this point, if it was mine; that cam would be sitting on my workbench.
And micrometers on it and the cam bearings. But, never seen this before...??

 

[Maclin]

Re: Fuel Pump Obsolete

Visionisle,

This had me very curious so I have found several pieces of information about this engine and your problem.

Here is just one excerpt from a thread on a Ford chat site, the url is also included below, these are the kinds of sites I think you should monitor, you could also maybe even call some garages on your area that work on Fords, if you find the right mechanic they may spill the beans for free....

Problem as stated...:
"I used to have a 302 cam in my 351W, this weekend I put a new cam in my 351w and now my distributor doesn't seat all the way down, it's up about 1/4", this is after the shaft twists into the cam gear.
I figure you would have to use a 351w distributor because of the higher deck height, regardless of cam.
Can you think of anything I should adjust or change?"

One answer....:
"The cam won't make any difference in how the distributor seats.
It sounds like you don't have the oil pump drive shaft fully seated in the end of the dist shaft. Or....when you pulled the distributor you pulled the oil pump shaft out of the oil pump.
Remove the distributor and use a 1/4" drive 5/16" socket on a long extension to turn the oil pump shaft to make sure it's in the pump. Put a piece of tape on the socket/ext so the socket won't fall off in the engine."


http://www.fordmuscle.com/forums/all-ford-techboard/452263-302-351w-distributor-differences.html

Good luck, you are close I can feel it....



p.s. btw here is my google search I used to find that one...."ford 351 oil pump shaft distributor"

 

[Maclin]

Re: Fuel Pump Obsolete

here is an even better one, sorry for the verbosity and what could be perceived as post count padding.....


http://malaysia.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070304104716AAqoEFi&show=7




My motto: Post early, Post often :redface:

 

[Coors]

Re: Fuel Pump Obsolete

You know, maybe some crap fell into the oil pump shaft hole, Need a flashlight to see. That might be pushing up the shaft, disturbing the dist.

 

[Maclin]

Re: Fuel Pump Obsolete

I agree, or even some junk jammed up in the dist shaft....

 

[Coors]

Re: Fuel Pump Obsolete

yeah, worked on a lot of engines with shafts; never encountered this problem.

 

[VisionIsle]

Re: Fuel Pump Obsolete

Thank you for the comments. I havent been able to get to the boat since Saturday. The distributor is only bottoming out by about .060" , not anywhere near 1/4".

Im going to try to place 2 .030" gaskets where the distributor seats and mess with it from there. I know the oil pump shaft came up once but the problem existed well before that, pretty much right after the timing chain install.

Im thinking the new distributor, even though it had 15 hours on it, may have caused some kind of problem, for when I pulled it the gear wear shows it to be uneven.

I'll keep you guys posted and thanks for doing some research for me. ive tried a few ford forums and its like pulling teeth, besides telling the story from scratch is getting confusing.