Fuel Pump Obsolete

[VisionIsle]

Re: Fuel Pump Obsolete

The reason I pulled the distr. was that it appeared to be slightly past the #1 on the cap and the previous chain had a 1" play in it. I suppose I was thinking that possibly it could have been off a tooth from the play?

Anyways, what happened was the boat would accelerate and decelerate inconsistantly as if gas was being supplied erratically, I found a bent tab on the 2 piece eccentric and replaced it. At the same time I noticed the chain was loose and replaced the timing set. Its a 351W 1977 Ford ( Volvo Penta AQ240 ). I replaced it with # 7811 Edelbrock. Its made for a Late Small Block Ford (not sure how late they mean) .

All I know is that I went out with a fuel issue and after messing with the timing
I can only get her to idle for a few seconds before it wants to die.

 

[Coors]

Re: Fuel Pump Obsolete

duplicate help thread I tried to send; can't find Don's ignition test.

 

[Coors]

Re: Fuel Pump Obsolete

check for correct spark (blue) at plug wires, proper voltage at coil, etc.

 

[VisionIsle]

Re: Fuel Pump Obsolete

Here is the latest.

Distributor has been put back in original position. I am able to run the engine only when it is cold and it runs at low idle for under a minute, the second I start to give it throttle it dies. After that she really wont start again.

The interesting thing is that the location the rotor points in at TDC moves.
For example The rotor is setup and points at the number 1 cylinder at TDC on the #1 compression stroke. After I turn it over a couple of times then put it back at TDC on the #1 compression stroke the rotor points to the next in firing order.

What could be causing this???? Has this happened to anyone???

A broken distributor (its fairly new by the way, under 15 hours)?
A broken Cam?
Can the worm gear for the distributor on the cam or on the distributor move somehow?

I need some serious help.

My next step is to pull the valve covers and look inside.

Thanks, Still down since the 14th of APril.

 

[Maclin]

Re: Fuel Pump Obsolete

When the rotor position in relation to the #1 TDC position changes then there is something broken in the distributor "drivetrain". ANYTHING between the rotor and the camshaft can be the culprit.

The distributor shaft could be slipping where the top part connects and pins into the bottom shaft.

The drive slot or gear could be broken and slipping around on a galled shaft.

It kind of goes back to why did the fuel pump eccentric fail like it did, more or less all points back to the cam.

 

[Don S]

Re: Fuel Pump Obsolete

Pull the distributor back out of the engine and see if you can hold the rotor and turn the gear. The pin may be sheared and just the friction of the broken pin allows it to keep in time at idle, but move at higher rpm.

 

[VisionIsle]

Re: Fuel Pump Obsolete

I still have my old distributor, should I try and see if it does any better?
When you say it all goes back to the cam , what exactly do you mean?

 

[Don S]

Re: Fuel Pump Obsolete

I still have my old distributor, should I try and see if it does any better?

Sure, why not?

 

[VisionIsle]

Re: Fuel Pump Obsolete

Anything else I should look for while Im there? Lets say the rotor does not spin freely and there is no broken pin.

I cant get to the boat too often these days and would like to check multiple items.
Thanks!

 

[nyteez]

Re: Fuel Pump Obsolete

When we converted from mechanical to an electric fuel pump we had the same problem. We even bought another electric pump because we thought the first one was defective. The problem was so simple. These pumps are designed to push fuel not suck fuel, so make sure your fuel filter is between the pump and your carb. The mechanical pumps have the filter before the pump, electrical needs to be after. Just moving the fuel filter solved our problem.

 

[Maclin]

Re: Fuel Pump Obsolete

I think he got the mechanical pump to work and stayed with it.

 

[Maclin]

Re: Fuel Pump Obsolete

Visionisle,

I meant that the fuel pump eccentric tab breaking and the distributor "walking" is the type of coincidence that makes the cam suspect as both are driven from the cam, that is where their "drivetrains" start.

Try the old distributor, that would be simple enough. Kinda neat that you have one ready to try. I hope that is it.

I just still have some nagging feelings about the state of the cam and what made the eccentric go and the dizzy slip at the same time. Also where did the tab go? Things like that bug me, not knowing the sequence of events that began each failure and not being able to assess any collateral damage.

I am not sure how the distributor drive gear on the cam is attached, if it is swedged on or was cut out of the shaft itself the same way the lobes were cut. I am also not sure on that model of Ford engine what else is driven off of that gear. A lot of engines drive the oil pump and the distributor off the same gear.

All luck to you.

 

[VisionIsle]

Re: Fuel Pump Obsolete

I appreciate all the input, actually the tab on the eccentric was still attached (luckily) but was bent badly and about to break off. Ill try the old distributor and let you guys know what happens. We'll be in touch.

Thanks again.

 

[Coors]

Re: Fuel Pump Obsolete

My old mind hasn't had to deal with a ford (other than the 92 bronco in the back yard, that will not signal the electric fuel pump).
But, it seems that I remember that eccentric, on old auto fords, having that tang.
But they also had a pin/dowel pressed into the cam, which went through a hole in the eccentric. taking the spinning pressure. the tang was to hold it in place while the cam bolt was installed.

Just a thought. (this was in the 60's/70's)

 

[VisionIsle]

Re: Fuel Pump Obsolete

Hello everyone, here is the latest...again

Well, yesterday I pulled the new distibutor and replaced it with the old one. She started right up like old times, I let her run for 5 minutes and decided I could start messing with the distributor timing. By the way, we definetely are convinced the timing chaing was aligned correctly when installed. As soon as I put a little pressure on the distributor bolt it started to run very poorly and I had to back the bolt off just a hair. I am starting to think there is a problem with the cam ???
We noticed that when the engine was running, this last time for 8 minutes, there is a slight rubbing sound coming from the back of the engine, almost sounds like a bearing going. And when we try to give it some gas above 2000 rpm it doesnt want it and starts to run poorly again.

This is the first time so far that I was able to start and stop the engine even after it was warm.

We pulled one of the valve covers and did not notice anything unusual or bent.

Odd things so far, if the cam was broken then how did the new distibutor rotor face a new direction on TDC and the old one does not? ( I guess the new one has a broken internal part? I tried what DOn had said, to hold the rotor and try to spin the gear, that didnt work, so if something is broken inside thats the only thing). My new distibutor ran fine for 15 hours before this is happening.

I am starting to think that it may not be the new distibutor, but the old one is hitting #1 TDC every time.

We also replace the coil with a new spare I had on board and we have good spark.

So my questions have now become major ones.

How does a cam break and is there as easier way to check that it is broken without removing it?

If we remove the intake manifold will we be able to see some of the cam.
I am now thinking this is going to take me through the summer to find out and fix. Any and all insights are welcome.

Thanks,

Carden

 

[J JACKSON]

Re: Fuel Pump Obsolete

if the cam was broken the rocker arms wouldn't all be moving when you turned it over with the valve covers off. take a look at the dist gear are there any signs of it not meshing correctly with the cam gear?

 

[VisionIsle]

Re: Fuel Pump Obsolete

The gears look fine. Does this sound like a distributor issue to you or anyone listening?

 

[Maclin]

Re: Fuel Pump Obsolete

Form post #35...: ".........As soon as I put a little pressure on the distributor bolt it started to run very poorly and I had to back the bolt off just a hair..........."

This makes me wonder if there is supposed to be a gasket or an oring or something between the block and the distributor housing. It sounds like the distributor drive is bottoming out before the housing contacts the block fully and puts the distributor shaft in a bind.

Again, I have no specific knowledge of that engine, but perhaps the oil pump drive or whatever the distributor shaft pokes into has walked upwards some due to some mechanical problem? That would push the distriubutor shaft up and cause problems.

 

[Coors]

Re: Fuel Pump Obsolete

I thought about it, and could see a cam breaking between the closes dist bearing, but I think once it spun, it would never get aligned again, so swappin dist would not work.
Try this; put both dist side by side and measure from bottom of housing to bottom of gear, and shaft. See if one is longer?

 

[VisionIsle]

Re: Fuel Pump Obsolete

How would the engine run with a broken cam? Is it possible that at higher RPM's the cam slips and then falls back into place at lower Revs?
Has anyone heard an engine run with a broken cam? Would'nt it be loud or run terrible?
When this thing is running, initially it sounds fine.

I am not missing anything on the distibutor, like a washer, but could add one. I dont feel like that is solving the problem though.

I recently changed spark plugs from Champion 18 that were fouled to NGK's , still same results.