Fuel Pump Obsolete

[VisionIsle]

Does anyone know of an after market supplier for a AQ240A/77 Fuel pump.

The Volvo Penta part number 835587 is discontinued and the venders that do have it are $220+

Any aftermarket on this one or can another be converted over possibly?

The AQ240A is a small block ford 351

Thanks

 

[Bondo]

Re: Fuel Pump Obsolete

Ayuh,.......

I gotta imagine that trying to adapt any other fuelpumps that fit the 351 would lead to clocking problems with the Lines,.....

I'd think it would be relatively easy to go to an Electric fuelpump, as long as it's Wired propery......

I'm sure some of the other posters more familiar with your Volvo will be along,.....

Good Luck.....

 

[VisionIsle]

Re: Fuel Pump Obsolete

Thanks Bondo.

Anybody else have an idea?

 

[VisionIsle]

Re: Fuel Pump Obsolete

Well today I changed the fuel pump. The engine is still starved for fuel. I checked the hoses, all clear. Changed the spark plugs. I take off the flame arrestor and there is no gas in the carberator. I changed the fuel filter and pull the hose from the gas tank and blow, its not clogged. Could I have bought the wrong fuel pump? It fits perfect and looks exactly like the old one. What should I check now? Please help, I need to go out or Ill go crazy SOON.

tHANKS,

cARDEN

 

[JustJason]

Re: Fuel Pump Obsolete

put some clear line in front of the fuel pump and see if your sucking air

 

[VisionIsle]

Re: Fuel Pump Obsolete

Thanks,
Thats a good idea, its becoming a pain to remove the lines and check for gas. The last time I removed the fuel filter and it was about 1/2 full. WHen installing a new fuel pump, how long does it take to suck up enough fuel to fill it up, especially if the engine will not turn over, any way to prime the fuel pump?

Carden

 

[Maclin]

Re: Fuel Pump Obsolete

Not sure what exactly you mean by "especially if the engine will not turn over". If the engine is not turning then the mechanical pump will never work!

A mechanical fuel pump can be tested to a certain degree manually on a bench with no tools. If you have the old one laying around try it first. First make sure the lever has very little freeplay before it meets resistance inside the pump. Then to check the operation hold the pump housing firmly and push the lever in against the bench, it may take a little effort so try to use your weight against it, you should hear a little sucking or whoosh noise. Leave the lever pushed in, and put one finger over the inlet or outlet and let the lever out slowly The suction or pressure against your finger should keep the lever from returning to the fully extended position until you move your finger out of the way. If ithe lever gradually moves and your finger is still maintining a seal then the pump needs replaced. Try this a couple of times varying which end you plug with your finger to be sure you understand the operation and behavior.

Also, whatever the lever rides against in the engine has to be good and not worn down. Some engines have the lever run against a special lobe on the cam, some engines have a rod that the lever pushes against and the rod runs against a special lobe on the cam. Some engines have a separate eccentric piece that bolts in with the cam that the lever runs against. Any of these items can be worn and affect the pump operation.

 

[Maclin]

Re: Fuel Pump Obsolete

As far as how long should it take for gasoline to reach the carb....

I replaced my water separating fuel filter this past weekend in preparation for the spring wakeup. I filled the filter with as much gasoline as I felt comfortable with before I put it on, but I have also put them on dry before and it did not seem to make all that much difference.

I cranked the engine for about 8 seconds then stopped. I waited a bit then cranked the engine for about 8 seconds again and stopped. I pumped the throttle twice and cranked for about 5 seconds and it sputtered once. I pumped the throttle one more time then cranked and it started right away then died after a couple of seconds. I moved the throttle forward some and cranked again and vroom, it was running.

I knew the carb was dry and it needed the first two 8 second sessions to get fuel up to the carb so I did not even try the throttle until after that. The reason for cranking only 8 or 10 seconds at a time is to not let the starter heat up.

 

[VisionIsle]

Re: Fuel Pump Obsolete

Thank you all for your help. My engine is a volvo AQ240A (ford 351w)
When I pulled the old mechanical pump off, I was able to shine a light and look inside the engine to see where the fuel pump arm would go. It looks as if the pump arm rests under the eccentric, you can actually see the marks on it. It really only allowed me to install the pump one way. I had the engine at TDC when I installed it. I have read that you can put the pumps in wrong but didnt see any other way to do it. The engine is acting as if the new pump is bad.
Did I install this correctly?

 

[Don S]

Re: Fuel Pump Obsolete

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=167561

 

[VisionIsle]

Re: Fuel Pump Obsolete

Don,

thank you for the link. Can you tell me if I have purchased the wrong pump?

You of all people would know what would work in the engine I have (AQ240A)

I have installed a Sierra 18-7267. This pump fits OMC 302 & 351 ci

It replaces OMC and Mercruiser pumps and I was told that it will work in my 351w. It looks identical to the one I replaced.

I am unable to check any of the tests you've suggested because the boat will not start let alone running it at WOT under load.

Thanks,

Carden

 

[Don S]

Re: Fuel Pump Obsolete

I don't have a clue if you have the right pump or not. Have never seen a 240.
Volvo only used the Fords for a couple of years back then, so not many around. BUT!!!!! If it's a Ford 351 marine pump, and you can hook up the lines my guess is it will work.
What you need to do is check fuel pump pressure. Even while cranking. Get a remote gas tank (6 Gallon OB tank works great.) and hook it to your fuel pump, prime it with the primer bulb and see if the engine will start.

Are you sure you have a fuel problem? Do you have spark??????

 

[VisionIsle]

Re: Fuel Pump Obsolete

that sounds like a good idea, I wont be able to try the primer bulb thing until Sunday though. I also spoke with another guy who told me that is the right pump. The spark issue doesnt really make sense with the symptoms all pointing towards a fuel issue, but I will check that as well. Thanks, will keep all posted as to what I find. Appreciate all the help.

 

[VisionIsle]

Re: Fuel Pump Obsolete

OK all, here is one for your knowledge bank. tHE ECCENTRIC IS SPINNING FREELY ON THE CAM!
No wonder the new pump, let alone the old pump, would'nt pump. The only good outcome to this is that I've learned how to install a new pump and troubleshoot the fuel system. It looks as if I need to remove the timing chain cover and see what happened.
Questions:
Has this happened to anyone?
Is there a tab on the eccentric that could have broken?
How is it able to spin freely, in both directions, with a bolt still through it?

Any other thoughts or suggestions. It looks as though the cover also has at least 4 bolts to the oil pan, which I will have to be careful when resealing.

Words of advice??? WHat am I in for ????

Thanks,

 

[VisionIsle]

Re: Fuel Pump Obsolete

Is this so rare that no one has an opinion on what might have happened. And what I might expect when I take this apart. It sounds like a big assignment, can anyone give me advice on my situation. Im going to begin disassembling today, Im not trying to rush it but I only have time to work on it on the weekends.

 

[Maclin]

Re: Fuel Pump Obsolete

Sorry, I only have direct hands-on experience with small block and big block MoPars, no experience on the Ford setup. What you describe would be rare on a small black Mope, but would involve removing the timing cover and timing chain and cam gear then replacing the eccentric or whatever broke that keeps it attached to tha cam.

Wish I could help more, glad you figured this much of it out though.

 

[VisionIsle]

Re: Fuel Pump Obsolete

Thanks Maclan,

I did a large part of the disassemble yesterday. I also found out through a few Ford forums that the Ford 351w was not that uncommon for the tab to shear off and the bolt to back off and allow the eccentric to rotate. Its a lot of work to get to it and I may go with an electronic fuel pump. When I was looking for info on this issue I saw some forums about the electronic fuel pump and how its got to be installed correctly for safety and coast guard approval. Anyone want to send me the link?

I appreciate the input from all.

 

[VisionIsle]

Re: Fuel Pump Obsolete

Here is the latest, and yes Im still down.

After opening the cover to the timing gears to get to the eccentric I noticed the timing chain had a 1" deflection and decided to change it. Put the new one on, had the engine at TDC on the compression stroke for the #1 cylinder. Aligned the dots of the cam and crank sprockets, which had either a keyway or dowel pin to assist in alignment. Put everything back together with new gaskets etc...

Put on the new fuel pump. No Fuel... long story short. The new fuel pump would not pump. Wrong pump I guess.

So back to the old pump I go ( which was not the problem in the first place, it was the backed out bold from the cam and the tab broken on the eccentric)

So now Im getting fuel flow to the carb, so no more fuel problem.

I adjust the points and get her to start briefly. As soon as I try to give it a little throttle, it puffs and dies.

ALL this time I do have a mechanic with me and we have checked each others steps along the way. So after various tweeking of the carb and distributor timing, we are still not able to get it running. It may idle for 15 seconds and then we give it gas to keep it going but it puffs and dies. We checked #1 spark plug location and everything checks out on the timing chain install. We even pulled the distributor and modified by 1 worm tooth, smae results. Whats going on???? I need help, both of us are stumped.

When all this started it was from a brocken eccentric, could something have happened to the cam?

Our compression check yesterday came out at all cylinders between 130- 135

And by the way all the spark plugs were fouled with gas after trying to start.

Possible scenarios? Coil going bad, batteries getting weak, wrong timing gears? Wrong gear install

HELP.

Thanks

 

[Uraijit]

Re: Fuel Pump Obsolete

Why are you pulling the distro? Use a timing light and check the timing. if it's off, just rotate it in the block to adjust. Are you positive that your engine was at TDC on the COMPRESSION stroke when you set your timing? The alignment holes/marks/keys should have been lined up already, if you were at TDC on compression. Did you have to move anything to get it to line up?

 

[Maclin]

Re: Fuel Pump Obsolete

I do not know what your original incident and symptoms were that made you think fuel pump at first. Was the engine running then suddenly stall out and run bad? Did it pop and sputter, or lose RPM? things like that.....Some more history of what happened just before you had to work on it would be good stuff to know for diagnosing remotely like this!

I would suspect that the failing eccentric was just a symptom of cam or other valve train problems, maybe from cam walk or who knows. Could be anything from flat lobes to broken camshaft. I would want to take off the valve covers and watch the rocker action as he engine is cranked, but disabled so it will not start. I have seen an engine run with a broken camshaft, it was broken right at the back of the last journal and the engine would start and idle but die when anything above idle was attempted. That probably is not it, but take a look at the rockers as it cranks. Check all the tolerances, side to side, up and down, each rocker, listen for clicks or thumps.

Your compression readings indicate that the cam timing is ok. If a distributor is 180 degrees off it will crank ok and just puff and pop every once in a while but not start. If it is too far advanced it will crank real hard and "jerky" but will usually keep running once it does start.

Also did you check the fuel for water?

Good luck, wish I had more specifics to give you guys.