Fuel Problem on my 1996 225hp ocean runner

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Lio_miami

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Re: Fuel Problem on my 1996 225hp ocean runner

Already did look like its bad in the inside botton
 
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Lio_miami

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Re: Fuel Problem on my 1996 225hp ocean runner

guys i am in deeper lol i intall a new fuel pump kit 5007422 and still the same i put a gauge at the top fuel pump outlet and the preassure starts drooping until it gets to 0 what should i look for what can i do!!!!! help pls the engine has good compression at 105-106s all cylinders
 
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daselbee

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Re: Fuel Problem on my 1996 225hp ocean runner

Fuel pump operates on both the pressure pulses and the vacuum pulses from the pulse limiter fitting that is screwed into the block. That fuel pump pulse is driven off of cylinder #6.

Did you change the pulse limiter fitting? A new one is included in the kit. Is the hose from the pulse limiter to the pump is good shape? No leaks, etc?

Listen carefully to the pump when the engine is running. Is it clicking every few seconds? If so, it is getting the pulses, and probably nothing wrong with the pulses that run the pump.

Other than that, you must have some sort of restriction to the incoming fuel flow. You could tee in a vacuum gauge on the incoming fuel line and see if vacuum rises as the engine runs out of gas. If so, something is preventing the gas from flowing freely to the pump inlet.

Another possibility is that there is a leak in the incoming fuel line that is causing the pump to pull air in, instead of pulling fuel in.
But for sure, you would see the fuel gushing out such a leak when you used the primer bulb to prime up the system. Or, when trying to prime, and the leak is on the tank side of the primer bulb (inlet side) then you will never get fuel to the engine.

I know, I know, this has been posted before up above. But you have to check it all thoroughly. One of the main "health indicators" of a good operational fuel system, from tank all the way to the carbs, is the primer bulb. If it gets firm and holds, that is a very good sign.

How far away is the tank from the pump? Could be a distance thing.

If all else fails, you could install an electric fuel pump. There are major safety concerns tho, because if the key is left on, such a pump continues to run even when the engine is not running. If you have any type of fuel leak, you can fill the under cowl with gas and fumes.
Boom.

There are many racer types that run electric fuel pumps tho.

If you are good with electronics, you can make a circuit that drives a relay to control the voltage to the electric fuel pump. Drive the relay off the two yellow wires from the stator. When the engine stops, no voltage from yellows, relay drops out, and then no fuel pump operation.
You can also have a momentary push button on the console to press and hold for a few seconds, turning on the electric fuel pump, to prime up the motor for starting. No more expensive primer bulbs to buy.
Hah...or even better, wire it up to the purple/white choke line, and when you press the key in to activate the primer solenoid, the electric fuel pump would run. Primes the system right up without having to crawl back and pump the bulb....

Just dreaming....
 
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Lio_miami

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Re: Fuel Problem on my 1996 225hp ocean runner

I just install a new hose to the pulse on thr pump and yes the kit came with new pulse limiter i can feel the pump clicking evry couple of seconds i try a external tank with new hose and prime bulb!! I install a gause at the preasurre hose and it holds 8psi for minutes
 
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daselbee

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Re: Fuel Problem on my 1996 225hp ocean runner

So you already did all this stuff....
You are doing the correct things. Pump clicking means the air motor in the pump is working.
You tried a different tank.....
You put a pressure gauge on the pump input and pumped primer to 8 psi, and it holds?

And then, when you start, the output pressure slowly drops to zero, with no fuel being pumped...

Disconnect the pump output line and use a piece of spare fuel line. Run the spare line from the output to a clear container.
If it is truly not pumping, when you crank it using the starter motor only, it will not gush fuel into the container.

Somehow you have to determine if it is not pumping at all, or if it is pumping, just not enough...

Somehow there is a restriction somewhere.

I know this is a lousy idea, but can you attach a clean hose to the pump output, and using your mouth, suck fuel thru the system....just enough to see if it flows well. Don't swallow any...:faint2: Maybe use a clear vinyl tubing, 10 feet or so, so you can see it coming atcha!!!
 
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daselbee

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Re: Fuel Problem on my 1996 225hp ocean runner

What I am trying to say I guess is that the pump may be pumping, but that the engine consumes more fuel than the pump can deliver.

If so, maybe the pulses are not strong enough to drive the pump adequately. It can happen, when #6 crankcase compression is low/bad for some odd reason. If that were the case, you would see that #6 wasn't contributing to making power...as each cylinder gets it's fuel charge due to the proper crankcase compression.

Hey....maybe the reed block for #6 is leaking badly....low crankcase compression as a result, and low fuel pump driving pulses.

Crap...that's exactly where I would look at this point.
 
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Lio_miami

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Re: Fuel Problem on my 1996 225hp ocean runner

Hey....maybe the reed block for #6 is leaking badly....low crankcase compression as a result, and low fuel pump driving pulses. Where is these at lost me on that 1
 
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Lio_miami

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Re: Fuel Problem on my 1996 225hp ocean runner

I got it now daselbee i know then by another. Name they are the reed valves i call them Flappers how do i check them
 
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daselbee

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Re: Fuel Problem on my 1996 225hp ocean runner

Well just hold your caballos.
You have to eliminate the fuel flow problem if it exists.
You have to determine if the pump is pumping, but just not enough volume.

Then, if you can, run it at idle with the air silencer off, at dusk, with a timing light.
Focus the timing light on the front of each carb. You will probably see droplets of fuel dancing around the front of the carb opening.

If any reeds are bad, you will see a very large amount of fuel being blown back out the carb throat. If they all look the same, probably not a reed problem.

But low crankcase pressure could very well cause a weak fuel pump output, because the pulses driving the pump are not normal.
 
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bob johnson

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Re: Fuel Problem on my 1996 225hp ocean runner

daselbee said:
Well just hold your caballos.
You have to eliminate the fuel flow problem if it exists.
You have to determine if the pump is pumping, but just not enough volume.

Then, if you can, run it at idle with the air silencer off, at dusk, with a timing light.
Focus the timing light on the front of each carb. You will probably see droplets of fuel dancing around the front of the carb opening.

If any reeds are bad, you will see a very large amount of fuel being blown back out the carb throat. If they all look the same, probably not a reed problem.

But low crankcase pressure could very well cause a weak fuel pump output, because the pulses driving the pump are not normal.
Click to expand...


ok , why do you need a timing light , a nigh ,to look at gas at the opening of the carb???

how often do pulse fittings actualy go bad?

also IF ...... you have good compression , can you assume you sould have good crankcase pressure?

or do the reeds have a say in that?
 
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daselbee

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Re: Fuel Problem on my 1996 225hp ocean runner

It won't be gas in the front of the carb. It will be mist/droplets. You will be surprised when using a timing light, at how much droplets are dancing around in front of the carb throats. You do it a night/dusk to be able to see them well, and the timing light freezes them in space and time so you can see. Strobe effect.

I never saw a bad pulse limiter. Possibly get clogged, but I never saw a bad one. There must be a reason for them putting one in every kit.

No. Cyl compression is not an indication of crankcase compression. When the piston is travelling down in the cyl, it builds compression in the crankcase. The reeds are closed at that time. This compression, along with the fuel oil charge, is gushed into the cylinder when the piston top passes the intake port on it's way down. That crankcase compression is what drives the fuel oil mix into the cyl.

All kinds of variations of problems can occur at the bottom of the cylinder and piston skirt area. They can affect crankcase compression, but when the piston starts back up, and the ports are closed off by the top of the piston passing by, then you start talking about generating cyl compression, which could very well be normal.

Assume this guy has a tie wrap in his #6 reed block. The air will rush back out thru that opening in the reed and never build ccase compression. Nor will it make good fuel pump pulses. He would notice this problem underway as a non-contributing cylinder and would not attain max WOT, etc. Maybe even burn the cyl because of lean condition. But he can't run it...fuel pump won't keep up. So he probably hasn't noticed the down cylinder. Also if it is raining gas out the front of #6, it is being collected by the air silencer, and drained to the crankcase by a small drain hose. So, unless he has run the engine with the silencer off, he will not have noticed a problem.

That is all speculation. Not sure what is wrong yet.

He WILL see it raining gas out the front of #6 carb if a reed is open somehow. OP, make sure you know which carb is for #6. It will be on the starboard side, lowest carb down. (Opposite side of the actual cylinder location).

OP...tearing the front down to get to the reeds is a bear of a job. Mucho work. Eliminate all else before attempting that job.
 
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racerone

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Re: Fuel Problem on my 1996 225hp ocean runner

Reed valves have nothing to do with compression in the cylinder.---A bad crankcase seal ring will cause a drop in crankcase compression with no change in cylinder compression.
 
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bob johnson

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Re: Fuel Problem on my 1996 225hp ocean runner

daselbee said:
It won't be gas in the front of the carb. It will be mist/droplets. You will be surprised when using a timing light, at how much droplets are dancing around in front of the carb throats. You do it a night/dusk to be able to see them well, and the timing light freezes them in space and time so you can see. Strobe effect.

I never saw a bad pulse limiter. Possibly get clogged, but I never saw a bad one. There must be a reason for them putting one in every kit.

No. Cyl compression is not an indication of crankcase compression. When the piston is travelling down in the cyl, it builds compression in the crankcase. The reeds are closed at that time. This compression, along with the fuel oil charge, is gushed into the cylinder when the piston top passes the intake port on it's way down. That crankcase compression is what drives the fuel oil mix into the cyl.

All kinds of variations of problems can occur at the bottom of the cylinder and piston skirt area. They can affect crankcase compression, but when the piston starts back up, and the ports are closed off by the top of the piston passing by, then you start talking about generating cyl compression, which could very well be normal.

Assume this guy has a tie wrap in his #6 reed block. The air will rush back out thru that opening in the reed and never build ccase compression. Nor will it make good fuel pump pulses. He would notice this problem underway as a non-contributing cylinder and would not attain max WOT, etc. Maybe even burn the cyl because of lean condition. But he can't run it...fuel pump won't keep up. So he probably hasn't noticed the down cylinder. Also if it is raining gas out the front of #6, it is being collected by the air silencer, and drained to the crankcase by a small drain hose. So, unless he has run the engine with the silencer off, he will not have noticed a problem.

That is all speculation. Not sure what is wrong yet.

He WILL see it raining gas out the front of #6 carb if a reed is open somehow. OP, make sure you know which carb is for #6. It will be on the starboard side, lowest carb down. (Opposite side of the actual cylinder location).

OP...tearing the front down to get to the reeds is a bear of a job. Mucho work. Eliminate all else before attempting that job.
Click to expand...

thanks, love the explaination...... I am only as smart as all my problems that have forced me to learn how o solve them. that was a usefull info

I was going to ask....would something stuck in the reeds, cause zero compression #'s or would the last little bit of the stroke be enough

bob
 
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racerone

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Re: Fuel Problem on my 1996 225hp ocean runner

When something is stuck in the reeds you get little or no crankcase compression which is totally seperate from cylinder compression.----Take a look into an outboard cylinder.---You will notice that you do not see a reed valve anywhere.--After the exhaust ports are closed the compression in the cylinder starts.
 
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daselbee

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Re: Fuel Problem on my 1996 225hp ocean runner

^^^^ What he said.

Next time you have a head off, rotate the crank thru a few times and watch how the piston uncovers ports on the downstroke and covers on the upstroke.

When, (in time) or in degrees of revolution, the port is uncovered and covered by the piston is called the port timing. Not an adjustment, but a design specification from E'rude engineering. Race guys play with that port timing.

You get 250 hp out of a 225 block by raising the top side of the exhaust port on all six by about .300" (grinding the sleeve away). Changes the exhaust port timing. Give it a bigger throat carb and bigger jets, and you got a 250.
 
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boobie

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Re: Fuel Problem on my 1996 225hp ocean runner

Racer, how about 2 stroke mtrs with no reed valves or else rotor valves ??
 
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Lio_miami

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Re: Fuel Problem on my 1996 225hp ocean runner

Already order the srvice manual but i was gonna put the boat on the water tomorrow to see how it does can u guys tell me how the link and sync is more or less i know my way around but dont know the exact way to do it i have a timing light and timing is set up to 4 ADTC carbs are close all the way
 
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Lio_miami

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Re: Fuel Problem on my 1996 225hp ocean runner

I am gonna try to get it idle at 800 rpm in gear
 
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