Fuel Leak + No Spark Plugs but runs great - help - 115 HP

[lncovert]

Re: Fuel Leak + No Spark Plugs but runs great - help - 115 HP

haha. No, we made it back ok. Here is the update. We took the boat out yesterday (Saturday) with the new plugs in. The engine ran great as usual, but I'm not sure if there was a difference or not. Some people on my boat thought they noticed a difference and that it planed out faster, but I'm not so sure (it may be the placebo effect ). Before the fastest speed we could achieve was about 32 mph, but that was with choppy water and 5 or 6 people on board. This time I was able to get 35 mph but the water was like glass, there were only 4 people on board and I played with the trim a little which got me a couple of extra mph's.

Taking all of that into consideration, I think iWombat may be correct that the plugs aren't firing. I need to get a tester to see if they are firing, but the problem is that my apt. complex has no water faucet so I can't run the engine here. Have to take it to the lake again to test it. Or can you put the spark tester on and just turn the flywheel?

INCOVERT!!!!!!!! You stranded on the lake?

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Fuel Leak + No Spark Plugs but runs great - help - 115 HP

I can't believe the boat actually reached 32 MPH running on half it's cylinders. Do not be surprised to find there is no difference in performance (or decreased performance) when you install the missing plugs. The ignition may be non-functional. And did you not think the "popping sound" coming from the engine was probably not "normal"?

 

[ondarvr]

Re: Fuel Leak + No Spark Plugs but runs great - help - 115 HP

While you were at the lake all you needed to do was pull off those plug wires one at a time to see if it ran the same, rough or died.

At home pull all the plugs and have somebody check for spark on those two while you crank it.

 

[lncovert]

Re: Fuel Leak + No Spark Plugs but runs great - help - 115 HP

Silvertip, there was no popping sound. Sounded normal like always.

Ondarvr, I can't run the engine at the apartment because we have no water supply here. Will the plugs fire if the flywheel is turned by hand? If so, could I risk turning the engine on by turning the flywheel by hand and end up making ground beef out of my hand? Maybe I should keep the fuel line unplugged when I do this?

 

[iwombat]

Re: Fuel Leak + No Spark Plugs but runs great - help - 115 HP

You don't need water to check for spark.

1) Pull all the plugs out.
2) put tester on wire(s) being tested.
3) Ground out all non-tested wires - nails inserted in the boot and laid against block will work.
4) crank motor and check for bright blue spark in a 7/16" gap.

It's better if you can at least lube up the water pump with some water, but a little dry cranking won't kill anything. This is probably a good time to check compression too.

 

[Molaker]

Re: Fuel Leak + No Spark Plugs but runs great - help - 115 HP

As far as sabotage, we took the boat skiing last saturday and parked the boat at about 8 p.m., I got up and took the engine cowl off the next morning and noticed the missing plugs. So someone would've had to have removed them that night. I doubt anyone did this though.

there was no popping sound. Sounded normal like always.

Are you saying there was no difference in engine noise AND performance from the day before you discovered the missing plugs and this last run? If that's the case, I think someone did, in fact, remove your sparkplugs the night before you discovered it. Nothing else seems to make sense.

 

[lncovert]

Re: Fuel Leak + No Spark Plugs but runs great - help - 115 HP

Yes, there was basically no major difference from what I can tell. That means one of two things:

1) The 2 plugs I put in aren't firing, so there would be no difference with or without them.

or

2) Someone happened to steal the plugs just a few hours before I took the engine cowl off for the 1st time. This latter scenario would be a major coincidence.

I need to check if the spark plugs are firing.

I'll try iWombat's method and see if I am getting a spark out of those 2 new ones. This will be interesting.

Are you saying there was no difference in engine noise AND performance from the day before you discovered the missing plugs and this last run? If that's the case, I think someone did, in fact, remove your sparkplugs the night before you discovered it. Nothing else seems to make sense.

 

[Molaker]

Re: Fuel Leak + No Spark Plugs but runs great - help - 115 HP

Yes, there was basically no major difference from what I can tell. That means one of two things:

1) The 2 plugs I put in aren't firing, so there would be no difference with or without them.

or

2) Someone happened to steal the plugs just a few hours before I took the engine cowl off for the 1st time. This latter scenario would be a major coincidence.

It is difficult for me to believe the sound of the engine (not to mention power) would not be drastically affected by removing 2 plugs. I remember removing only 1 sparkplug from my dad's old Desoto Firedome V8 (okay, so it was a few years ago) and it sounded something like an old steam locomotive. I'm still voting for #2.

 

[raymond2112]

Re: Fuel Leak + No Spark Plugs but runs great - help - 115 HP

incovert,
please tell me soon whats going on......I havent slept for over a week now...

 

[lncovert]

Re: Fuel Leak + No Spark Plugs but runs great - help - 115 HP

Update: I went out and bought a spark plug tester (not that I don't believe iWombat's spark test method, but it was only $9 at the auto store, so I went ahead and bought it). This one you plug the spark wire onto the tester and then it has a clip to ground to the engine block.

I unplugged all 4 of the spark plug wires to keep the engine from actually starting on me without water. Then, I hooked the spark tester up to 1 plug. Turned the key for a second...saw a spark. I repeated this for all 4 plugs and every one had a spark. Iwombat, I didn't ground the 3 unused plugs...will this matter? Does that invalidate my test? I'm not familiar with the circuit. Also, iWombat, I don't have a compression tester, but I will get one soon.

The spark plug tester has a screw that you can use to increase or decrease the gap. I didn't play with this. It seemed like the original 2 wires that were on the original spark plugs sparked blue and the 2 wires that were on the missing plugs sparked orange...but I'm not really sure.

A friend of mine's dad told me to unscrew the new spark plugs and see if I saw pistons inside. I did this and put a pull cord on the flywheel and turned it and we saw the piston's moving up and down.

My wife says she "definitely noticed that it planed out faster than before." I'm not sure. But the wives are usually right. Also, before my maximum speed was about 32 mph, and yesterday with the 2 extra plugs in it reached 34-35 mph. I thought it was because we had 1 or 2 less people on board and the lake wasn't choppy at all. I guess I was thinking I would absolutely be able to tell a difference and thought the speed would increase from about 32 mph to maybe 45 or 50 mph.

What do y'all think?

 

[kenmyfam]

Re: Fuel Leak + No Spark Plugs but runs great - help - 115 HP

I can hardly wait for the next instalment !!!

Hey, if you dont know whats going on when on the original 2 cylinders then put 2 plugs in the ones that were missing and take the other 2 out. See what happens.

 

[CharlieB]

Re: Fuel Leak + No Spark Plugs but runs great - help - 115 HP

Somebody's playing games with us.

There is absolutely no way on this planet that a 115 V-4 will both get that boat on plane AND pull up a skier with two cyl's out, unless he's running nitro for fuel on the other two!

I've seen lots of engines with ONE cyl out that wouldn't get that boat up.

Running on 3 MIGHT get my old 62 Starcraft (alum) up cause it don't weight a thing, no way on a glass boat with people aboard.

Someone's play tricks, and generally messing with our head.

As they say here in MO, "Show me!"

Someone else on this board should be near enough to meet up, and a number of us I'm sure would be willing to bet money that it can't be done, at least not on pump gas.

 

[iwombat]

Re: Fuel Leak + No Spark Plugs but runs great - help - 115 HP

Grounding out the plugs is just a safety measure. Open holes spewing fuel and arcing plug wires make things go foom.

 

[ondarvr]

Re: Fuel Leak + No Spark Plugs but runs great - help - 115 HP

If this is true, then somebody stole the two plugs that were missing and you actually never used it that way, you just happened to check it and found them gone. 2 or 3 MPH is nothing, you would see a huge jump in speed and power between 2 cylinders and 4.

 

[lncovert]

Re: Fuel Leak + No Spark Plugs but runs great - help - 115 HP

Next time I take the boat out...hopefully soon...I will unplug the 2 wires that used to have missing plugs and see how the engine runs then. Then I will re-hook them up and see if I notice a difference. That should answer the question...hopefully.

Someone suggested I'm playing games...this makes me think I've learned something about engines that no mechanic knew about outboards. Or...maybe someone did actually steal the plugs a few hours before I took the cover off. I'll figure it out the next time I take the boat out.

Oh...someone said there's no way 2 cylinders could push a "glass boat" with a skier. It is a wooden boat with a fiberglass overlay...maybe that makes it lighter than a pure glass boat???

 

[lncovert]

Re: Fuel Leak + No Spark Plugs but runs great - help - 115 HP

CharlieB, when I was a kid, my parents had about a 16-foot fiberglass boat with a 45 HP Evinrude on the back. My parents and my older brother could slalom ski behind it. That's only 45 HP.

With only 2 out of 4 cylinders that should be around 115 HP divided by 2 putting it at ~58 HP. Granted, it's an 18-foot boat, but that's a little more than 45 HP.

What do you think? I'm probably not taking into account the load that the sleeping pistons are putting on the engine or something...

Somebody's playing games with us.

There is absolutely no way on this planet that a 115 V-4 will both get that boat on plane AND pull up a skier with two cyl's out, unless he's running nitro for fuel on the other two!

I've seen lots of engines with ONE cyl out that wouldn't get that boat up.

Running on 3 MIGHT get my old 62 Starcraft (alum) up cause it don't weight a thing, no way on a glass boat with people aboard.

Someone's play tricks, and generally messing with our head.

As they say here in MO, "Show me!"

Someone else on this board should be near enough to meet up, and a number of us I'm sure would be willing to bet money that it can't be done, at least not on pump gas.

 

[CharlieB]

Re: Fuel Leak + No Spark Plugs but runs great - help - 115 HP

IF......the plugs were removed then the parasitic load of the dead cyl's is lessened by the loss of compression on the dead holes.

I am just so sceptical of the performance, I'd just about have to see it to believe it.

I'm convinced someone is pulling a prank on him.

Sorta like sneaking over to the neighbors and adding a gallon of gas to his new car every night. He's bragging about his great milage. You heard the story.

Incovert,

You may have been had, pranks are often done by friends. Let it go.

If it wasn't a prank, some rotten bastard stole the plugs, potentially jeopardizing your (and passengers) life and limb. Well, lets just hope he gets his, karma works in mysterious ways.

DO NOT attempt to run your boat with 2 plugs removed. As others have posted, the 2 stoke WILL pump gasoline fumes and create an explosive potential that is NOT worth risking your life.

Be glad you found it and be happy with the performance.

 

[clemsonfor]

Re: Fuel Leak + No Spark Plugs but runs great - help - 115 HP

That makes it worse, wood is heavy ever been to Lowes. An orage spark would mean its weak no one said that yet. I agree someone must have sabotaged you so you would have a long worthless trip but u found it. A 115 with 2 plugs gone and 4 or 5 people would never plane and would idle extremly rough with one cyl bank gone.

They recomended that u remove the "original" 2 plugs to see if the 2 new ones will puch the boat 32, mph.

Just the fact that you had 2 less people would give you 2-3 mph if they were small girls 100 lbs each thats 200 less puunds well say an avg of 150 lb person which would even account for a couple, guy weighs 200 and the girl say 100 if shes light, this give 300 less pounds for notcarring 2 more people or even underestimates it, like if you had 2 more guys that may be 200lbs each.

I too if not sabotaged think the banks never worked (read my first post) b/c it should have run diff. But unless the motor was modified if would run extreamly rough on 2 cyls, it would be extemly hard to idle cold!


-Nate

 

[lncovert]

Re: Fuel Leak + No Spark Plugs but runs great - help - 115 HP

CharlieB, if 35 mph is all my boat will do, I am completely happy. But it is a mystery I would like to figure out. Maybe someone did play a prank on me and steal the plugs, but every last one of my friends graduated and moved away and they know a lot less about engines than I do anyway (if that's possible). So if someone sabotaged it, then it's a stranger.

You're right, I don't want to take the plugs out and risk injuring someone, but I was thinking I could just unplug the 2 wires (and not unscrew the 2 plugs)? That way gas vapors can't spew out and I can test the difference plugged vs. unplugged.

I just haven't heard anything convincing that a 60 HP engine can't plane an 18-foot boat out (115 HP 4 cyl with only 2 1plugs = approx 60 HP). I've seen boats with a lot smaller engines than that.

 

[CharlieB]

Re: Fuel Leak + No Spark Plugs but runs great - help - 115 HP

Wish I were there to watch!

Ground the wires when you unplug them, ignitions do not like not having a place for the electrical energy to go.

The parasitic HP loss pumping dead holes would be far less with the spark plugs removed.

NONE of us recommend that you do this. But.....if you insist, make absolutely certain those wires are well ggrounded so that no spark can occur. And leave the motor cover OFF to vent gasoline fumes. Make sure your fire extinguisher is full, current, and handy.

Later, verify the spark color, orange is weak and will limit HP and rpm. That should be addressed should you survive 'testing'.

Take Care