Fuel injected parts no longer available

[Laneman25]

I recently read that boats with fuel injection may have parts that are not available, specifically control boards/computers for the fuel system. One boat in my area is for sale because the injectors will not spray. Does this mean owners have to switch to carbs or is there a workaround such as automotive fuel injection controllers? I know certain parts (starters) have to be marine versions for explosion resistance, is this the reason?

 

[racerone]

This is a known issue with " high tech " parts.------Also a known issue with outsourced parts and suppliers.-----Old ignitions could be refurbished by real mechanics in the day.----Carburetors could be repaired / rebuilt.-----But your mechanic today can not build a fuel injector / a sensor / computer on his workbench.

 

[matt167]

I know a mechanic that can refurbish ECUs on the bench. But he’s not an average mechanic. He switched from TV/ radio repair in his early years to mechanics and is good at anything he does.

Anyway. Anything marine spec EFI for a Ford is NLA. The biggest issue is the Ford EEC ECUs have issues with age. They can be fixed however by a qualified professional unless the board is burned from a short

 

[Scott Danforth]

For Ford marine motors of the 90s, switching the NLA EFI and ignition bits for a carb and Malory ignition is common for keeping the motor alive.

There are adapters for using the GM exhaust manifolds on some of the ford motors. In other cases, the exhaust manifolds are NLA.

Check parts availability of the marine specific things when considering a ford powered boat.

 

[Lou C]

Not sure if the programming is similar or the same from an automotive ECM vs marine; I would suspect it’s not and that the marine engine ECU was programmed to run a good bit richer to avoid burning valves & pistons under the constant load of marine use.
In the case of buying a boat that won’t run due to EFI issues it’s very risky. You won’t be able to determine if the engine is in good shape because you can’t run it until warm even for a simple compression test. If they want to sell it bad enough let ‘em fix it first or price it like a project boat that needs engine work. Yes I could tell you how to convert to a carb & conventional ignition but that ignores the issue of engine condition….

 

[dingbat]

Bear in mind that large OEMs make very few of the parts in their assemblies. NLA in most cases doesn’t mean a replacement part is no longer in production. It means that the OEM no longer stocks or carries the part in question for one reason or another. Typically parts with low turnover rates and the overhead of buying or processing “one of” orders is cost prohibitive.

Electronics are no different. Was able to substitute an ignition module for a 35 yro golf cart with that of a 67 Chevy.

Recently bought a high end, commercial EFI mower for pennies on the dollar after two dealers couldn’t get it running. Never worked on an EFI but took it to task.

OEM docs were pretty good from a wiring stand point but the ECU was treated as “black box”. Removed the ECU and starting googling some of the numbers on the enclosure.

Sure enough, manufactured by a Taiwanese manufacturer who appears to hold a significant share of the world wide market.
Went looking on their website. Found the data sheet and schematics for the ECU in question.

Long story short, oxidized pins in O2 sensor connector and a compromised wire (power to ecu) in the engine harness

 

[Lou C]

A failure could be just that simple. Given how EFI works you can see how there are many more failure points than with the older points system or even the Merc Thunderbolt system. Think of how many fewer connections there are on an engine with either a points ignition/carb, or a stand alone elecltronic system/carb. EFI has many more; each one is a potential failure point. Reliability depends on not just electronics themselves but also the terminals, how well they keep out moisture.
Carbs, just have to clean it when needed. Simple & inexpensive. I can find every part I need for a Quadrajet that hasn't been built in 33 years.

 

[dingbat]

A failure could be just that simple. Given how EFI works you can see how there are many more failure points than with the older points system or even the Merc Thunderbolt system. Think of how many fewer connections there are on an engine with either a points ignition/carb, or a stand alone elecltronic system/carb. EFI has many more; each one is a potential failure point. Reliability depends on not just electronics themselves but also the terminals, how well they keep out moisture.
Carbs, just have to clean it when needed. Simple & inexpensive. I can find every part I need for a Quadrajet that hasn't been built in 33 years.

While I can’t argue there are more possible points of failure if you count wiring, I have not owned or messed with carbureted engines, other than lawn equipment and two old outboards i own in almost 40 years.

Bottom line, they take two completely different skill sets to support. With my background, I would much rather troubleshoot electronics than rebuild a carb(s) or mess with a distributor based ignition system

If I wanted a simple, run forever motor it would be diesel. Next to my daily driver, my two diesel tractors are the least problematic vehicles I own.

 

[Lou C]

Rebuilding a Quadrajet or Holley 4 bbl is no harder than a small engine carb. I don’t mind trouble shooting electronic engines since that’s what all our vehicles are now what I do mind is NLA parts. With carbs & points ignition it’s just not an issue. BTW the fancy Autel scanner that I bought my self for Christmas last year has already paid for itself…

 

[Scott Danforth]

Marine engines are wired different and programmed different than their automotive counterparts

A good example is the same MEFI ECM used by GM as a crate motor, Mercruiser for a marine engine ECM, and Volvo Penta for a marine engine ECM. While the board level bits are the same, the pin out and programming is vastly different. Ask why Mercruiser has to use a 2-pin Ford IAC vs VPs 4-pin GM IAC on the same GM 5.7 motor.

The OPs Ford ECM is no different. The ECM is similar to a f150, however pinned and programmed differently by Volvo Penta for the marine application. The injectors can be sent out and rebuilt. But VP does not support the ECM, exhaust, and other bits. And Ford no longer supports the ignition bits

 

[dingbat]

While the board level bits are the same, the pin out and programming is vastly different. Ask why Mercruiser has to use a 2-pin Ford IAC vs VPs 4-pin GM IAC on the same GM 5.7 motor.

Same reason Garmin and Lowrance support the same third party transducers yet are not interchangeable (w/o break out box) due to the use of different connectors.

Slowly seeing that nonsense go away as more and more components move to the NMEA 2000 standard

 

[dingbat]

Rebuilding a Quadrajet or Holley 4 bbl is no harder than a small engine carb.

Rebuilding a quadrajet is a lot more work than ordering as new small engine carb off Amazon for $20-30

don’t mind trouble shooting electronic engines since that’s what all our vehicles are now what I do mind is NLA parts.

I have yet to “scrap” a single machine from NLA issues. Parts are easy to source if you know how and where to look

BTW the fancy Autel scanner that I bought my self for Christmas last year has already paid for itself…

Got tired of running up to Autozone working on my daughter’s cars. Bought a cheap, last generation Autel unit for $30 off ebay couple years ago. For whatever reason still able to download updates to the unit.

 

[Lou C]

Rebuilding a quadrajet is a lot more work than ordering as new small engine carb off Amazon for $20-30


I have yet to “scrap” a single machine from NLA issues. Parts are easy to source if you know how and where to look

Got tired of running up to Autozone working on my daughter’s cars. Bought a cheap, last generation Autel unit for $30 off ebay couple years ago. For whatever reason still able to download updates to the unit.

Once you've done the Q-jet it really isn't hard, taking off the air horn is a bit tricky but again your second rebuild will take half the time of the first.
Yes you can get aftermarket carbs from Amazon....but do they work?
What I do with all my small engines that have a float bowl type carb is install a fuel shut off valve if it doesn't have one. This makes it easy to remove the bowl to drain out the gas without making a big mess. My other machines all 2 strokes that have the little cube diaphragm style carbs I just start up every 2-3 months. I know I should run them out of fuel but this method works pretty well.
NLA parts is a big problem on older vehicles like my 2 Jeeps. Ebay and Car-part are the only sources for some items, most of the domestic car companies start making parts NLA about 10 years after the model has ended production.
The only reason I am thinking of replacing my '07 Grand Cherokee, is that. Critical parts like engine ECMs, cat converters, etc are just NLA.
The Autel unit I got last year reads ALL codes, engine, body, ABS. I was able to repair non-working headlights on the passenger side on the '07 just by running the codes. Canbus is very complex, these scanners are a must if you want to actually fix anything. Oh and the cause was a bad ground path, just added an extra ground wire to the harness on that side and that fixed it.
When the ground path is interrupted, Canbus turns off the positive side, so you don't really know what the cause is without a scanner.

 

[Lou C]

Cleaning and rebuilding this was actually less of a headache for me than rebuilding the Zama carb on my Husky chain saw! The parts on those little cube carbs are really tiny. It did run much better though when I was done with it.

 

[racerone]

Electronic devices are cheap to make in an automated factory.------Electronic devices are quick and cheap to install on an assembly line.----Are calibrated at the source.----Require few skill at the assembly line.-----But when it comes to diagnoses and repairs this new technology is very expensive.

 

[Scott06]

I recently read that boats with fuel injection may have parts that are not available, specifically control boards/computers for the fuel system. One boat in my area is for sale because the injectors will not spray. Does this mean owners have to switch to carbs or is there a workaround such as automotive fuel injection controllers? I know certain parts (starters) have to be marine versions for explosion resistance, is this the reason?

Injectors can be cleaned or replaced normally things like the ecm are NLA . In that case yes the options are swap to carb or get used parts. Normally little in the automotive world can be used on boats do to electrical spark and fuel safety requirements.

specifically what engine is in it . Would find a fuel injector rebuilding shop and see if they can supply injectors. Based off the info would find it hard to think you can’t get a set or working injectors unless it’s an odd ball. Usually if something like this is broken and offered at reduced price the seller is done with it because it is a money pit. Makes no sense why they wouldn’t get it in running shape to sell it and recoup more value.

 

[Scott Danforth]

based on a different thread, the OP is looking at a mid 90's Ford motor with an OMC or OMC/Volvo JV drive.

OMC vs Volvo drives

Hey Folks, I'm getting back into boating and could use some help. I had a 19 foot boat back in the 90's. Back then everyone said to avoid OMC and stick with either Volvo or Mercruiser. Now that Volvo has merged with OMC I am leary of Volvo. Most of the boats I am looking at are 1990 to 2000...

forums.iboats.com

 

[Lou C]

If it’s a Ford & a JV drive, and the engine has the Ford EFI and that unobtanium Splitfire ignition system figure in finding a Ford cast iron 4 bbl intake a mechanical fuel pump & Holley 4bbl carb. These engines originally had a points distributor that you can sometimes find used. Since the engines were originally carbed you can just go back & look at OMC catalogs & see how they were set up from the factory.