Frozen Block?

[Ypt14flyr]

I bought a 1987 Four Winns 16' bowrider fixer-upper (cheap) wanting to get back on the water (after 30 years), and knew the engine had probs, but being a decent mechanic, (albeit not familiar w/ marine engines), I thought I'd have a go.. The engine did show some traces of water in the oil, but not a lot. (We suspect, now, a cracked manifold. Some traces of rust in a couple intake ports, but no signs on the head gasket or on the top of the pistons).
Bigger prob.. it was spitting a firehose of water out the back, we discovered the large upper rear core plug had blown out, (And got beat to heck by the flywheel).. Now I asked several (marine) people IF that 'freeze' plug, (I know..wrong name).. could blow out WITHOUT freezing the block?? In other words.. Is it possible for that plug to come out.. for whatever reason.. and NOT having frozen and further damaged the block?.. Everyone.. to a man.. said "No Way".. Well.. I took the bare block to the very best engine rebuilder in Portland, Or., and they cleaned it, magnafluxed it and pressure tested it and I was told.. this is one of the better 3.0L blocks he'd seen in quite some time.. No cracks anywhere!.. So.. ? The exception to the rule.?
Why that plug came out will remain a mystery.. but It IS possible, I guess. (Very 'light' freeze and a loose plug..??) Naww.. The plug is so 'high' (in the water jacket), that seems highly unlikely.. In fact, in a freeze, the whole block would have to be full to the top with water, and that seems impossible, even if the block wasn't drained..?? Wouldn't it? So..?

 

[racerone]

They are " core plugs "----Mistakenly called freeze plugs.-----

 

[Lou C]

I’d say buy a lottery ticket! That’s a rare but not unheard of event!

 

[Scott Danforth]

Pressure test the cooling water jacket. The 3.0 will crack inside, just above the pan rail, however won't leak until warm

 

[Scott06]

Yes unusual but not unheard of for a core plug to get pushed out and not crack the block

If it was magged and pressure tested I would think it is ok. A neighbor had same issue because he waited until after first freeze to winterize. Put in a core plug in and seeemed like no water was getting in oil but after 3-4 uses crankcase was getting water on it. This was a different situation in that he engine never came out of the boat until water was in the oil

 

[Ypt14flyr]

Yes, I originally called it a core plug.. and it was pressure tested.. so maybe I did hit the lottery.. but the location of this plug.. very high up.. really baffles me as to how it could 'freeze' out. Anyway.. I set this block aside for my next 3.0 build. I got a decent short block from an '85 Glastream and built up a 'replacement' engine. We almost got it running today.. fuel pump seems bad, but squirting gas in the carb and it went vroom ..vroom.. nice. I left out intervening details.. ie; I quit on the 4 Winns and got an '88 Marlin 16' bowrider, cheaper and nicer, so the 'new' engine is going in that one.. Anyway, still learning about these marine engines, but like learning new things.. and I like having good luck once in a while..lol. (Although it did cost me $315 to get that 1st block checked, but understand it's worth that or more). I need a whole walk-thru windshield for the Marlin if anyone has any clues. Thanks all.. JG

 

[Scott06]

Yes, I originally called it a core plug.. and it was pressure tested.. so maybe I did hit the lottery.. but the location of this plug.. very high up.. really baffles me as to how it could 'freeze' out. Anyway.. I set this block aside for my next 3.0 build. I got a decent short block from an '85 Glastream and built up a 'replacement' engine. We almost got it running today.. fuel pump seems bad, but squirting gas in the carb and it went vroom ..vroom.. nice. I left out intervening details.. ie; I quit on the 4 Winns and got an '88 Marlin 16' bowrider, cheaper and nicer, so the 'new' engine is going in that one.. Anyway, still learning about these marine engines, but like learning new things.. and I like having good luck once in a while..lol. (Although it did cost me $315 to get that 1st block checked, but understand it's worth that or more). I need a whole walk-thru windshield for the Marlin if anyone has any clues. Thanks all.. JG

These marine engines are basically truck or industrial motors. Not rocket surgery. Biggest thing you need to watch is stringer and transom rot with the age of boats you are working on

save your receipts for the machine shop work on the 3.0. Yes it’s worth more than $315. If you have some back up documentation that it is not cracked bore measurements etc any potential buyer would pay more

 

[Ypt14flyr]

Yeah the 4 Winns had bad center floor boards. I was just going to screw a sheet pf plywood on top for a cheap way to get on the water, (It's upholstery was chewed by critters also).. (I got the 4 Winns because the engine 'LOOKED' so nice.. lol.. all rod bearings were spun and the core plug was blown out)(but that's the block that was good).. but the Marlin I picked up is reasonably sound all over.. (We knew it's engine was toast).. Except for the missing windshield, so we put the 'new' cobbled together engine in it instead. I do have paperwork for the good block.

 

[Scott Danforth]

You know if the floor is rotten, the transom and stringers long ago rotted.

Adding a deck-over bandaid doesn't make it safe

 

[Grub54891]

My 3.0 had every core plug blown out when I got it. I replaced all of them, ran it hard all summer and it was fine. I figured it did freeze, then thawed out soon after before it got cold again. Weird I know but it's still a runner. That was 10 years ago, it's fine yet!

 

[Bondo]

Why that plug came out will remain a mystery.. but It IS possible, I guess. (Very 'light' freeze and a loose plug..??) Naww.. The plug is so 'high' (in the water jacket), that seems highly unlikely.. In fact, in a freeze, the whole block would have to be full to the top with water, and that seems impossible, even if the block wasn't drained..?? Wouldn't it?

Ayuh,..... It can, 'n does happen, just as Grub states,.....
It can freeze long enough, 'n cold enough to push out the core plugs, then temps warm, allowin' the water to drain out,.....
If it freezes again, the block will survive,....

 

[Scott06]

Yeah the 4 Winns had bad center floor boards. I was just going to screw a sheet pf plywood on top for a cheap way to get on the water, (It's upholstery was chewed by critters also).. (I got the 4 Winns because the engine 'LOOKED' so nice.. lol.. all rod bearings were spun and the core plug was blown out)(but that's the block that was good).. but the Marlin I picked up is reasonably sound all over.. (We knew it's engine was toast).. Except for the missing windshield, so we put the 'new' cobbled together engine in it instead. I do have paperwork for the good block.

If you look on eBay there are a few guys who part out boats and advertise windshields. Probably have to be really lucky to find what you need. if you can find out what Taylor glass number originally was on there may help as windshields can fit several boats

 

[Ypt14flyr]

Taylor Glass number..? ok.. how do I figure that out?.. Interesting.. Is this an industry 'standard' and are all.. or most.. boat salvagers familiar with this # ? I actually found another 'local' Salvage place that looks promising. We're going tomorrow.. Fingers crossed. (Pics of generic similar models)..

 

[Scott06]

Taylor Glass number..? ok.. how do I figure that out?.. Interesting.. Is this an industry 'standard' and are all.. or most.. boat salvagers familiar with this # ? I actually found another 'local' Salvage place that looks promising. We're going tomorrow.. Fingers crossed. (Pics of generic similar models)..

Most of them are made by a company called Taylor. My last two boats on the glass in the corner had a log that said “Taylor Made “ with a number after it. The number is there part number. You may be able to find this from the boat manufacturer as well. i was able to get a parts manual for my 04 sea ray that has a lot of the supplier part numbers for parts used on the boat

you may find something close enough at the local yard

 

[Ypt14flyr]

OK.. I do have a couple pieces of the original windshield, so I'll look.. Other than that, I doubt I can find a manual for this '88 Marlin.. but thanks for the info.

 

[Scott Danforth]

. Other than that, I doubt I can find a manual for this '88 Marlin..

Never existed

 

[Lou C]

Is the whole frame gone, or bent or is it just the glass?
If just the glass, then you can have pieces remade if they are flat (tempered glass) or even in Lexan or Plexiglass.
Otherwise you'd need to look for a frame from a similar size (width) boat.
Those simple alu frames that have straight glass are the easiest to deal with, the ones with the curved front glass can be a nightmare to get replaced, and very expensive when you can get replacements.

 

[Scott06]

Never existed

not sure if all manufacturers do it but I found this for my sea ray

https://rnr-marine.com/images/Sea-Ray_200-Sport_2004_Parts-Manual.PDF

its hit or miss if it has suppliers part number but at least you can get the sea ray factory part number. For my fuel tank sender it had the manufacturers name Wema and size so was super easy to order correct one.

 

[Ypt14flyr]

I have one side 'triangle' piece, one front panel and one busted triangle piece.. so pretty much looking for a whole unit. !st local salvage guy had one that was close, but too big. He had a rack of Bayliner windshields, which, he said were his real money-makers.. up to $375 per panel! yikes. Because there were so many Bayliners around?.. but most of those and many others had the much more $$ curved glass. Mine are all flat panels.
And my fault, but we got off the original posted topic.. but glad to get all the input. Thanks.
Going to a more promising Salvage yard today.. fingers crossed.

 

[Scott06]

I have one side 'triangle' piece, one front panel and one busted triangle piece.. so pretty much looking for a whole unit. !st local salvage guy had one that was close, but too big. He had a rack of Bayliner windshields, which, he said were his real money-makers.. up to $375 per panel! yikes. Because there were so many Bayliners around?.. but most of those and many others had the much more $$ curved glass. Mine are all flat panels.
And my fault, but we got off the original posted topic.. but glad to get all the input. Thanks.
Going to a more promising Salvage yard today.. fingers crossed.

if you find one close a glass shop may be able to cut it.

You will probably get sticker shock before this is done, they command big money and yo are basically out of options. Even if they still make the glass it will be more money.