Frankenboat Carburetor catastrophe

[ckraker]

Someone gave me a boat...
Fyi, that's never a good start.

1989 4winns 4.3.
I ended up buying another boat that was the same year, or very close, just for the engine. It has just been rebuilt (yes i got paperwork) and they had installed a new 4bbl carb with an aluminum intake. The carb was a Holley knockoff. Last summer was a horrible year for that engine, i had to do head gaskets once and then later dropped a valve seat. My engine builder says all signs point to hot combustion. We think the carb is 100 percent the cause.
I dropped another 1200 dollars into machine work and gaskets and want to get things right. I'm abandoning the aluminum intake and going to be looking for a stock carb. Are the carburetors all pretty interchangeable? I don't even know what hp rating this engine really is. It's like 3 boats in one i don't know which numbers or id Tags to trust. Any advice is greatly appreciated. Also.... Anyone want to buy a carb/aluminum intake?

 

[achris]

Non-vortec 4.3 with a 4bbl carb was 205hp. The stock carb was initially a Rochester Q-jet 4 bbl, later the Weber 9600 4bbl. Th very best carb on those engines is the Edlebrock 1409. The 2bbl version was 175hp with either a Rochester or a Mercarb 2bbl.

If you're going to change the manifold, consider swapping the heads out to vortec and you'll gain about 20hp, using the same carb.

Chris.......

 

[Scott06]

I would think lean and or incorrect ignition timing, or a bad rebuild. Before you swap carbs etc I would look at fuel filter contents and inside of existing carb bowl for dirt, water, other crud. Ay have had fuel system contamination that will just pollute anything you swap on .

 

[Scott Danforth]

the 1989 Four winns should have had OMC power in it (Four Winns was an OMC company back in those days)

as an OMC, the motor may have had a 2 barrel or 4 barrel holley

you are posting in the Mercruiser forum. was the motor you bought a mercruiser? what do you have

what do you have, what are you starting with, etc. post pics if you dont know.

what do you mean by "holley knockoff"? any of the performance 4150 variations out there would not be set up for marine, however they are equal to or better than holley. there are marine holley carbs.

new heads are less than $900 a pair, re-manufactured ones about $350 a pair, why would you spend $1200 on head work?

loosing head gasket and loosing a valve may be running lean, or improper timing or any of the things that Scott pointed out.

 

[ckraker]

Non-vortec 4.3 with a 4bbl carb was 205hp. The stock carb was initially a Rochester Q-jet 4 bbl, later the Weber 9600 4bbl. Th very best carb on those engines is the Edlebrock 1409. The 2bbl version was 175hp with either a Rochester or a Mercarb 2bbl.

If you're going to change the manifold, consider swapping the heads out to vortec and you'll gain about 20hp, using the same carb.

Chris.......

This is very helpful info. So the Carb is 100% of what determines it's original HP? I already had the heads rebuilt, so I can throw that extra 20HP out the window. Not a big deal though, Its not a performance boat. It's life will be spend trolling on Lake Michigan.
I didn't know there was a stock option for a 4bbl (maybe I'll stick with my current intake and look for a 1409. Thanks

 

[ckraker]

I would think lean and or incorrect ignition timing, or a bad rebuild. Before you swap carbs etc I would look at fuel filter contents and inside of existing carb bowl for dirt, water, other crud. Ay have had fuel system contamination that will just pollute anything you swap on .

Yes lean for sure, The carb on it scares me. It's China junk and its way more than my engine needs. I think a stock 4bbl would be the ticket.

 

[Rick Stephens]

I didn't know there ever was a *marine* rated Holley knockoff ever made. I'd be very wary of running a non-marine carburetor.

I stuck a 1409 on my 4.3. That on top of a Performa intake. The particular intake is all aluminum, so running in salt is a non-starter, but I live in Idaho, have to cruise a ways to find any salt. Same same from Lake Mich, I suppose.

The 1409 is one of the nicest carburetors to calibrate. Just takes some careful work and a bit of reading. The Edelbrock manual is very very good though. Lots of experience on these forums with that task.

 

[ckraker]

the 1989 Four winns should have had OMC power in it (Four Winns was an OMC company back in those days)

as an OMC, the motor may have had a 2 barrel or 4 barrel holley

you are posting in the Mercruiser forum. was the motor you bought a mercruiser? what do you have

what do you have, what are you starting with, etc. post pics if you dont know.

what do you mean by "holley knockoff"? any of the performance 4150 variations out there would not be set up for marine, however they are equal to or better than holley. there are marine holley carbs.

new heads are less than $900 a pair, re-manufactured ones about $350 a pair, why would you spend $1200 on head work?

loosing head gasket and loosing a valve may be running lean, or improper timing or any of the things that Scott pointed out.

1. It is a Mercruiser--- I'm sure of it not. I'll post some pictures.
2. I spent 1200 on all of the engine machine work plus new pistons, etc. The valve seat that dropped did some damage.
3 The timing was correct, which is why i still suspect the carb. Maybe it was unfair to call it junk--- I'll do some more digging about its reputation. It looks like it's been tinkered with a LOT. and I believe the previous owner had some issues trying to tune it as well.
Thanks

 

[Scott Danforth]

Yes lean for sure, The carb on it scares me. It's China junk and its way more than my engine needs. I think a stock 4bbl would be the ticket.

there are no chinesium holley marine clones. PERIOD

so unless its a holley marine carb, toss it or sell on fleabay or CL

factory 4-barrel for OMC 4.3 was a 600 CFM holley 4150 or 4160 (depending on year)

1. It is a Mercruiser--- I'm sure of it not. I'll post some pictures.
2. I spent 1200 on all of the engine machine work plus new pistons, etc. The valve seat that dropped did some damage.
3 The timing was correct, which is why i still suspect the carb. Maybe it was unfair to call it junk--- I'll do some more digging about its reputation. It looks like it's been tinkered with a LOT. and I believe the previous owner had some issues trying to tune it as well.
Thanks

if its a mercruiser, its not native to the boat. as I stated in post #4, in 1989, Four Winns was an OMC brand and only used OMC motors.

after 1994, they used either OMC or Volvo Penta (due to the joint venture)

 

[Lou C]

The Holley 4bbl used on the OMC after Quadrajet production ended was the 4160 with no power valve and bigger jets to compensate.

https://www.holley.com/products/fuel_systems/carburetors/marine_carburetors/parts/0-80492


I recall reading through some pricing/option lists on Four Winns boats, and pricing for both an OMC or a Mercrusier engine package was listed, but the OMC option was significantly cheaper. This may be why you don't see older FW boats with Merc engine packages (after OMC bought FW), maybe dealers just did not order them unless the customer insisted on it.

 

[Scott06]

Only thing I would think that would fit the definition of offshore Holley knock off would be a Sierra aftermarket replacement for either Q jet or mercarb, possibly a quick fuel or summit racing brand name carb that are Holley inspired.

as for the carb making the hp difference in the old days the base engine including cam was the same 2 bbl was like 175 hp, 4 bbl was like 205 hp on a 4.3. Like was said post some pics we we can tell u what u have

 

[Lou C]

I've never seen a knock off of a Holley but I have seen advertised by Sierra that they were making a copy of the Quadrajet, (Edelbrock also made a QJet copy some years back). Quick Fuel is actually part of Holley and has some features that regular Holleys do not (such as replaceable air bleeds, different finishes, sight plugs on marine float bowls not present on Holley marine carbs). But a Holley knock off, what is that, an auto carb fitted with j tubes but not re-jetted for marine use?

One of the problems with buying older inboards is that due to the automotive based engines, unknowledgeable people take short cuts and use parts that do not work well in marine use.

 

[achris]

Merc stopped using Holleys around 1971, and this is what I was told by the Merc service rep in my state in the mid 90's as to why "...sick of boat fires caused by Holleys".

I wouldn't put a Holley on a bicycle. Stick with something you know works on those engines. Having rebuilt many Q-Jets and Weber 96xx/Edelbrock1409/Carter AFB, the Edelbrocks are by a long way the better carb. Much much easier to strip down and clean, much much easier to reassemble and adjust.... Also, Merc supply a metal fuel line that goes from the engine mount filter directly to the inlet on the carb. Easy peasy....

Chris.............

 

[ckraker]

Here's the carb,. Apparently it's not the pile of junk i remembered. It's a quick fuel technology. No id tag anywhere so i don't even know which model it is. Any tips on how to identify?

 

[ckraker]

Only thing I would think that would fit the definition of offshore Holley knock off would be a Sierra aftermarket replacement for either Q jet or mercarb, possibly a quick fuel or summit racing brand name carb that are Holley inspired.

as for the carb making the hp difference in the old days the base engine including cam was the same 2 bbl was like 175 hp, 4 bbl was like 205 hp on a 4.3. Like was said post some pics we we can tell u what u have

Quick fuel.... Is that different than quick fuel technology? Look at the photo i posted.

 

[achris]

That is a 'Black Diamond' series QFT, and QFT do not make a marine carb. What you have is not designed for a boat, and is quite dangerous to have on your boat. Suggest you move that carb on, and get yourself a proper marine carb.

In this post I explain a lot of the differences, mostly to do with safety, and why there are differences between automotive and marine components. https://forums.iboats.com/forum/eng...s/10829958-marine-engine-vs-automotive-engine

Chris......

 

[Scott Danforth]

that is a Quick Fuel 600 CFM street carb

its not for boat use.

https://www.holley.com/products/fuel_systems/carburetors/quick_fuel/black_diamond_series/

sell it

then get a marine carb.

 

[Scott Danforth]

here are the Holley Marine carbs.

https://www.holley.com/products/fuel_systems/carburetors/marine_carburetors/

note that Marine carbs are about $100 higher than street carbs. that is for the J-tubes and the extra sealing on the throttle shafts and the custom choke assembly without the fast-idle cam

boat carbs do not have a fast idle cam so you dont run people over

 

[Scott06]

https://www.holley.com/products/fue...dfr1pKDDAQUiCDKv4VEIKAbKrUCIU4iIaAk6HEALw_wcB

here is a link to a quick fuel aka quick fuel technologies marine carb, note the Upsidedown J shaped vent tubes vs the vertical vent tubes in the picture from OP. As Chris outlines this isn’t a marine carb and is a serious safety issue. Take the advice and get a proper marine carb, Edelbrock 1409 will work nice but require rejecting for a 4.3.

Rick Stephens can tell you what jets to use

 

[Lou C]

There are Quick Fuel Marine carbs but that's not one of them.

https://www.holley.com/products/fuel_systems/carburetors/marine_carburetors/parts/M-600

this is....

agreed, sell the one you have, and get the right carb.
the issue with leaks and Holleys, while yes they have more places to leak from than either an Edelbrock or an old Quadrajet, about 90% of hot rods in the USA run Holleys and they were used on Volvo Penta Marine inboards, from the end of Q-jet production (1990) all the way up to the beginning of throttle body and port fuel injection. I think the gaskets and castings have been improved from the old days because you really do not hear about leaks and fires. That said the Edelbrock 1409 is a perfectly good carb to use on your boat.