Force 85 really difficult to start

marcus1802

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I have done what you both said, and with the plugs in the timing was right, but WITH then out, it wasn’t right. I tried to adjust again but that didn’t help.
One other thing I saw. Is when I have the choke on, the gas is coming out of the front, where the “filter” normally would be. Is that normal?
 

The Force power

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Static Timing is done in full throttle mode with @ Cranking-speed (spark plugs out and grounded)
You'll have to bypass the neutral-switch or jump the starter-solenoid
should be at 28 degrees ( to the left of center line)
Correcting my earlier post (I don't know what I was thinking)😴🤔 I guess I was not!
Thank you Jerry for the correction
 

The Force power

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I have done what you both said, and with the plugs in the timing was right, but WITH then out, it wasn’t right. I tried to adjust again but that didn’t help.
One other thing I saw. Is when I have the choke on, the gas is coming out of the front, where the “filter” normally would be. Is that normal?
I apologies for my wrong advice, Jerry is right.
That "filter" is actually an Air intake box silencer, it is normal for some gas to come out when choke is closed.
If there's a lot of fuel spitting out at all times, then likely the reeds behind the Carbs. will need to be inspected.
 

marcus1802

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So this is the result from compression test, which is in bars. What do you mean about that?
 

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The Force power

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Is the results okay? From the test.
7 Bar = 101.5 PSI
The compression reading is not "great" and judging by the compression-tester having (still) a card read-out means it's most likely accurate; the good part is that all readings are close together.
 

jerryjerry05

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I don't know the kind of tester you have?? Buy/ borrow a good one.
But as long as all 3 are within 5# of each other you should be OK!
Your results should be between 145-160#
Harbor Freight tools are seriously lacking in results :(
Was selling a 2002 Mercury 225 EFI
The customer wanted a compression test.
He even brought his NEW Harbor Freight tester, he started doing the tests and
his results were about half of what I'd advertised.
I got my tester out (160$ in 1988) The results went up to where they should be.
The HF tester is crap.
 

The Force power

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That's pretty cool looking!!
Haven't seen one like that.
Any idea how old?
We actually have one in our shop (at work) that's why I recognize the cards.
It got used on the Diesel engines (never actually used it myself)
I'm not sure how old?? maybe '70s
(the pic is from Flea bay)
 

marcus1802

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Hello again. I still dont know what to do. I still can’t get I started. What would you do? I’m lost.
 

marcus1802

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Nothing sinde the last time. I dont know what to do.
I have:
Bought new spark plugs
Cleaned carbs
Checked compression
There is spark
Checked timing

Next step might be the reed valves.
what else to do?
 

Redbarron%%

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And you verified that the TDC mark on the flywheel is matched to tdc on the #1 cylinder.
 

The Force power

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Have you ready the Sticky notes at the top of the force/chrysler forum & did you go through the test procedure(s) ?

Yes, inspect the reeds also
 

The Force power

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HERE'S A POST WRITTEN BY THE LATE FRANK A. follow this to the T do not skip any steps!!!


It is possible that although the triggers look the same you have one that is incorrect. If TDC occurs at the TDC mark and you can set the 28* WOT STATIC TIMING (plugs removed and wires shorted to ground). then the timing must be correct. If not you have a trigger problem,
It is also possible that the trigger magnets have shifted on the hub, but unlikely.

1.Disconnect the ball link to the carb cam at the timing tower. Disconnecting at the cam risks bending the cam. Move the cam away from the carb roller.
2. Loosen the screw(s) on the aluminum tie bar and let all carbs close completely, then tighten again.
3. Set the cam so that the scribed line is pointing directly at the black roller on the carb lever. If the cam has two closely spaced lines, set the black roller directly between them.
4. The black roller is held with an offset screw and nut. Loosen the nut and turn the screw until the black roller JUST touches the cam. Tighten the nut and re-attach the ball link maintaining the scribed line at the roller.
5. Adjust the ball link so that at full throttle the bottom carb butterfly opens substantially horizontally. Adjust the aluminum tie bar so all carb butterflies open equally at full throttle. They need not be perfect but should be rather close to horizontal for best performance.
6. Adjust timing to 30 degrees before top dead center at full throttle.
7. Adjust idle speed to 700-750 RPM in the water in forward gear. Do this with the screw on the bottom of the timing tower. Loosen the locknut and adjust. Screwing in increases idle speed. Do this in small increments and let the engine rev and adjust itself before the next adjustment. A little goes a long way here. When correct, tighten the nut. Note that the scribed line on the roller will now be (usually) below the black roller a bit.
8. NOW we adjust the mixture on the carbs. Set all low speed needles to about 1 1/4 turns out from lightly seated. Do not force as this will damage either the needles or the seats.
8A. With the engine idling in neutral, turn each the needles in equally about 1/8 turn at a time. Give the engine a couple of seconds between each adjustment to stabilize. Adjust until the engine either "sags" or stalls. Note this setting.
8B. Now go the opposite direction. Adjust until the engine runs rough, burbles, or stalls. Note this setting.
8C. Set all needles to the average between the two settings: That is, for example, if it stalled at 3/4 turn out and burbled at 1 1/4 out then set all needles to 1 turn out.
8D. Readjust idle speed to 700-750 RPM.
9. Take the boat out on the water and do a "hole shot"--Full throttle acceleration from a stop. If the engine "sags" then recovers and picks-up it is too lean. Open the needles about 1/16 turn at a time until the engine accelerates with no hesitation.
If the engine sputters or coughs or burbles, then clears itself and accelerates, it is too rich. Close the needles about 1/16 turn at a time until the engine accelerates smoothly.


10. I can NOT stress this enough! NEVER set the low speed needles less that 1 turns out no matter how poor the idle or acceleration. To do so will run the engine too lean and detonation and melted pistons at or near full throttle operation will result.
 
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