force 125 hesitation

fisheymikey

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Jul 30, 2012
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here my motor ready to go in the water...

what do you think the hesitation is?

I put timing light on each plug no misfire, float are adjusted with carbs immaculate...

transparent fuel filter before carbs full and primer bulb rock hard

any ideas??

force 125 hesitation - YouTube

thanks
 

MickLovin

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Feb 18, 2013
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Re: force 125 hesitation

I would say it is your air mixture screw not set correctly or your jets are slightly blocked, although you have cleaned them did you blow then with compressed air? Try water testing it and do a hole shot from idle staright to WOT if it bogs down then takes off it is too rich.
Check the link and sync sticky at the top of the forum. Also check the number of turns your carbies are set at now and make sure both carbies are set the same.
 

MickLovin

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Re: force 125 hesitation

Ok sorry I didn't check the video, that actually sounds more like a miss on one cylinder.
 

SkiDad

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Re: force 125 hesitation

I actually think Mick got it right - sounds like fuel mixture to me
 

MickLovin

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Re: force 125 hesitation

It's only slight though, just check your air mixture, make sure they are the same on both carbies, MARK! the original settings before you move it, I do this with a black pen on the carby front so I know the original setting before I move it to lightly seated and re-adjust to 1 1/8 on my motor, but start at 1 and 1/4 first and water test, if it bogs down adjust 1/16 on each making sure you set them the same, try again.
But check out Frank A's sticky at the top of the forum for linking and syncing, I start mine at 1 and 1/4 have my boat in the water, and I adjust 1/8 of a turn on one carby clockwise till you hear it pop, I mark that position, then I go counter clockwise till I hear it roll or gallop, I mark that spot. I shut the motor off, adjust that carbie to the mid point of those two marks wipe the old marks off and put a new mark on that midpoint, I then adjust back to lightly seated going clockwise while counting the turns. I then do the same for the bottom carby, but after that I divide the two settings added together by two and I will get what I actually set both carbie too.

So for e.g. if one mid-point is 1 turn on one carbie and the other midpoint is 1 and 1/8 turns, I would set them both to 1 and 1/16 turns, as it stands my 100hp is set at 1 and 1/8 turns both carbies. If your motor only has that hesitation while idling it will be in your low idle passages of your carbies if there is a block, but more than likely your air mixture isn't spot on.

Also when I started doing this by the manual, I noticed it said to have the motor in forward but at it's lowest possible idle speed, which can be lower than 750rpm, this is achieved by turning your idle screw down, but note where it was set, as you will more than likely need to re-set at 750rpm idle in forward, around 900 - 1000 out of gear.
Let us know how you go.
 

Jiggz

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3,907
Re: force 125 hesitation

Definitely a case of misfire except it is intermittent. It is really very hard to diagnose such problem but it is doable. Start with the simple ones first. Check all your plugs and see which one has an indication of fouling or misfiring. If you can post pics of the plugs most forum members can do an online diagnose with good pics. Use of the timing light to verify the ignition coils is great but with worn out plug wires, the spark could be somewhere or arcing over instead of the plugs. And the best way to see arcing over is to run the motor at night or in the dark to see if it is arcing over.

Second, verify your carbs are set properly as previously suggested. After diagnosing the plugs we can isolate the problem either with the upper or lower carbs if it is carb related or even reed related.
 

gregmsr

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391
Re: force 125 hesitation

Put it in the water and run the crap out of it. That's what i'd do as long as the carbs are adjusted properly and not running lean. I couldn't tell much with it setting there idling.
Do a compression check...
(stay close to the dock)
 

fisheymikey

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Re: force 125 hesitation

well I ran the engine on the water. For the first time my motor ran at 4900rpms (before it was 4200)... due to the wrong prop now I have a 15 pitch.

I found the problem so far.

the idle screw was adjusted to low the second I had the motor running at 1200 at idle the problem went away. when it was at 100 it did not like that at all.

I will post pics soon for the plugs
 
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Jiggz

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Re: force 125 hesitation

1200 RPM at idle (assuming you have an accurate tach) is a little too high. There are two things that is not so good about high idle; it masks the original problem of misfiring and second, it shortens the life of the clutch dog as they get jerked around when engaging or disengaging. If an engine cannot idle smoothly up to about 800~1000 RPM in neutral, further investigation needs to be done to find out why.
 

MickLovin

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Re: force 125 hesitation

What Jiggz said 800 - 1000 RPM in neutral, probably end up more like 900 - 1000 due to forward @ low idle being 750RPM. That motor seems a little low in RPM at WOT for a 15" prop, I had my 100hp Chrysler @ 5000 with a 21" s/s which was a bit big IMO, a 19" would have been better for my boat, I got a cheap 17" but it lost to much mph like about 6-7 mph from the 21".
Anyway least it should idle nice now.
 

fisheymikey

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Re: force 125 hesitation

ok. has anyone done a video of the sound of the force 125 at idle?

does it play a role the leg being in the bin or with the earmuffs(cant remember the name)?
 

Jiggz

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Re: force 125 hesitation

Actually I haven't. Maybe one of these days I should. But I can tell for sure mine sounds like this one. The sound may not be consistently the same through out but notice there is no jerking on the motor which is usually an indication of a misfire. Note this is running on water muffs as indicated by the water hose connection.

Force 125 hp For Sale - YouTube
 
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fisheymikey

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Re: force 125 hesitation

im not sure if I should start another thread...

I did a ohms test there is a difference between both pairs: from left to right...

first pair cold was 598 after it got warm 698
second pair 678 after warm 785

can that cause a misfire?

I have done like requested I checked all ground and reads dead short. all connectors are brand new.

and your right I am having a jerk reaction... my question is the only theory I have is the bottoms sparkplug is still clean. I have installed a new head gasket but im worries that it could be a faulty exhaust gasket. I did change a while back the shaft to from a long to a extra long, and worried that the black gasket maker did not work. or that the exhaust gasket has failed.

what do u think
 

Jiggz

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Re: force 125 hesitation

The rise in resistance is in line with warmed up coils although the first reading is a little low since the acceptable range is 680~800 but I sincerely doubt that is the caused of the misfire. As for your worries on the bottom cylinder, do a compression test on that said cylinder and that should clear your worries away. A clean spark plug is an indication it is not firing or could be firing but not attaining combustion. Again to put your doubts away, get a spare plug, ground it and watch its sparks and make sure it is consistent. If it is consistent and you have good compression, then you can start investigating the reeds. Before delving with disassembly post your diagnosis first. There is a simple test to check if reeds are not working properly.
 

fisheymikey

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Re: force 125 hesitation

what the simple reed test. a visual or do I remove the carbs and the reed assembly
 

Jiggz

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Re: force 125 hesitation

It's called the "wet test". Using a piece of white table napkin balled up to maybe 2"~3" round, place it in front (about an inch or two away, use safety gloves & googles just in case, there will be a mixture of air and fuel blowing out of the hole) of the plug hole on the cylinder you want to test. Activate the kill switch so motor will not start. Have someone crank over the motor at least 4 revs. If the reeds are working OK there should be wetting (fuel) in the napkin. If there is only very little or worse yet, none, the reeds are faulty. Since "wetting" is subjective, the best test is done by comparing a properly known working cylinder(s).
 

fisheymikey

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Re: force 125 hesitation

wow!!!

that is a very easy test!!

thaks Jiggz hope that is my problem. but the plug that I think is faulty does get wet but maybe not enough?

I have done a compression test and all 4 cylinders are even at 125

does it happen often that reeds fail?

and that could make my cylinder 4 misfire? I guess because there is not enough fuel?
 
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Jiggz

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Re: force 125 hesitation

Reeds failure is not unusual. In fact, it is one of the most misdiagnosed problem regarding misfiring because the reeds are the last to be focused on since it seems to involve more work to do so. Sparks, compression, fuel delivery and carb can all be diagnosed without taking too many parts apart but not with reeds. Another causes of misfiring that is also hard to diagnose is a faulty fuel recirculation system. But usually, a faulty recirc system will indicate lower compression or more wetting when doing a wet test. Make sure you post pics of the wet tests.
 

MickLovin

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Re: force 125 hesitation

After listening to his motor and having a listen to my 100hp Chrysler, I don't think that is even a misfire, it's a 2 stroke they don't run as smooth as a four, my idle isn't that much different, after checking your fuel to the cylinders with Jiggz method and you find you have fuel.
Just make sure you carbies are set the same, and try new plugs, see if it makes a difference. I think you are reading too much into it, get it on the water and after check your plugs for any signs of them not firing right, or being wet, or black etc, they should be a tan colour.
 

MikDee

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4,745
Re: force 125 hesitation

Definitely a case of misfire except it is intermittent. It is really very hard to diagnose such problem but it is doable. Start with the simple ones first. Check all your plugs and see which one has an indication of fouling or misfiring. If you can post pics of the plugs most forum members can do an online diagnose with good pics. Use of the timing light to verify the ignition coils is great but with worn out plug wires, the spark could be somewhere or arcing over instead of the plugs. And the best way to see arcing over is to run the motor at night or in the dark to see if it is arcing over.

Second, verify your carbs are set properly as previously suggested. After diagnosing the plugs we can isolate the problem either with the upper or lower carbs if it is carb related or even reed related.

If you get arcing or crossfire on the plugs, or wires, you must go to a resistor spark plug. That will stop it in it's tracks!
 
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