First boat is it worth it?

[Lou C]

Hello! Thank you for the reply, no worries about being abrupt I totally get it and that kid must of been a JackA$&.. I would never do that. And unless I’m alone in a very big body of water I would never even think about making a wake like that.
I appreciate the wisdom.
At 26, I’m a Licensed bodyman now going for my second license as a licensed mechanic. I own my own house. Soon to be an income property and purchasing another home with a nice fancy garage lol.. And two vehicles upwards of $70k both paid off. I’m just trying to say I’ve been saving. I’m very good with saving and finances. I don’t own a payment.. on anything! I have taken the boaters course. I’m very aware of the dangers. I’m not a young punk. Nor do I want “chicks” i’m in a commited relationship and this would be for her if anything. I want a boat of this magnitude this as it’s just what I have been saving and dreamt about for a while.
As all of my friends up here have fountains and scarabs etc..

now talking about the wood. Where is this wood everyone is speaking of? Just the transom? And how can I check it. And what if it is good? Is it possible that it could be good after all these years?
I looked ALL over last night. I can NOT find a single 454 boat at least even 20’ for under 20k that’s not an 88 or older. It’s crazy! Ontario is slim pickings.
Thank you all!

The wood is underneath all the fancy upholstery and wrap etc. Fiberglass itself is not that rigid. To make it rigid, you have the hull reinforced with stringers (like floor joists in a house) that run front to rear, the transom is cored with 2 layers of plywood, the deck is all plywood on top of the stringers. This is all glassed in with polyester resin, and fiberglass math/cloth depending on the builder. So if they covered the deck with carpet, and drilled holes to mount seats, and did not seal those holes, the rot will start when the temp and moisture are right for it and spread under that fancy interior. Then one day you hear the crunch. Or the 'glass round the motor mounts starts to crack, or cracks appear around the transom, or it starts leaking. It is VERY difficult to check for rot in a boat like that which was obviously re-done. And rot repair, is way worse than replacing an engine or an outdrive, it is messy, toxic, time consuming, horrible work. That's why I say never again. Only 2-5 year old boats for me and only outboards. No more rot repairs, no more standing on my head, none of it. Ever. Again.
Here are som pix from 2006-2007.
BTW, in 2005 when I noticed how bad the rot was getting my next door neighbor bought a Key West 2020 dual console with a Yamaha F150. This is an all composite boat, it still looks like new, and has been no trouble at all. That's what you should have! You want a V8 hot rod then buy one. Those old go fast wood cored boats are nothing but trouble. Unless you want to add fiberglass work to your areas of skills, trust me its not that much fun.

 

[JimS123]

now talking about the wood. Where is this wood everyone is speaking of? Just the transom? And how can I check it. And what if it is good? Is it possible that it could be good after all these years?

We may be overly cautious here, but its because we see way too many guys buy a boat and then find out that the wood repairs cost more than the boat cost.

If you're going to spend the big bucks, hire a marine surveyor to do a professional job, no matter what it takes to find one. Its better to blow a grand to find out you don't want the boat, as opposed to saving that money only to find out the repairs will cost you ten grand.

 

[Lou C]

We may be overly cautious here, but its because we see way too many guys buy a boat and then find out that the wood repairs cost more than the boat cost.

If you're going to spend the big bucks, hire a marine surveyor to do a professional job, no matter what it takes to find one. Its better to blow a grand to find out you don't want the boat, as opposed to saving that money only to find out the repairs will cost you ten grand.

IF you can even find a shop that will do the work and do it right, and it will take a couple months to get done. To do this job right you are pulling the engine, outdrive, transom mount and gutting the interior. I did only a partial deck replacement.

 

[JimS123]

looking further at he ad, the boat is in Johnstown. That is right on the St Laurence and I bet they kept the boat on a trailer and put it in the water when they wanted to go for a zip... chances are its in great condition.

Garage kept trailer boats are the ones that usually have good wood. Sitting outdoors in a driveway is no different than being tied to a dock. The key is keeping the bilge dry 100% of the time.

 

[JASinIL2006]

I don't think Larson started building boats with fiberglass stringer until the mid-90s and they had wooden decks and wooden transom cores even beyond that. That wood is the stuff that you need to be worried about, as the stringers are the skeleton of the boat, and the transom core supports the weight of the rear of the engine and the outdrive. If any of those wood structures are compromised, you can have a boat that isn't very safe, even if the boat appears to be in good shape. The best way to avoid buying a project boat is to either get it surveyed by a marine surveyor or have someone who is very familiar with boats look it over with you. Even then, it's not unheard of for problems to be discovered after the purchase...

That is kind of large for a first boat, but not terribly so. Take a boater's course (required in Ontario to get your boater's card, I believe) and have an experience boater accompany you a few times to help you figure everything out.

As for price... boat prices seem to be insane right now, and they always seem to be worse in Canada, but if you can afford it and you really want, why not go for it? Just realize it will be worth less - maybe a lot less - in a year or two when prices come back to earth.

 

[JimS123]

Another thought just came to mind....

You know, the gofasts with single 454's are becoming passe'. The noise of twin 454's with 4 transom exhausts are seen more frequently.

However, the REAL head-turners are the graphics laden boats with multiple 4-stroke outboards. While twins were once thew norm, "nobody" wants a gofast unless it has at least triples.

In our fishing drift yesterday we passed an area of new builds - all million dollar homes with multiple docks. We saw several Fountains, Scouts and Formulas. All were outboards - a triple a quad and the person I know is a plumber has FIVE 300 Mercs on the back.

Now here's a boat....

 

[roffey]

Garage kept trailer boats are the ones that usually have good wood. Sitting outdoors in a driveway is no different than being tied to a dock. The key is keeping the bilge dry 100% of the time.

I disagree, a boat sitting covered in the driveway is way better than at a dock. Granted, sitting in a covered and air conditioned room is better.

 

[Lou C]

Actually I have more problems with moisture in my boat when its in the driveway than when its on the mooring. Even after a big storm there is hardly any water inside but in the driveway, it always seems more wet.

 

[Roccafellas]

The wood is underneath all the fancy upholstery and wrap etc. Fiberglass itself is not that rigid. To make it rigid, you have the hull reinforced with stringers (like floor joists in a house) that run front to rear, the transom is cored with 2 layers of plywood, the deck is all plywood on top of the stringers. This is all glassed in with polyester resin, and fiberglass math/cloth depending on the builder. So if they covered the deck with carpet, and drilled holes to mount seats, and did not seal those holes, the rot will start when the temp and moisture are right for it and spread under that fancy interior. Then one day you hear the crunch. Or the 'glass round the motor mounts starts to crack, or cracks appear around the transom, or it starts leaking. It is VERY difficult to check for rot in a boat like that which was obviously re-done. And rot repair, is way worse than replacing an engine or an outdrive, it is messy, toxic, time consuming, horrible work. That's why I say never again. Only 2-5 year old boats for me and only outboards. No more rot repairs, no more standing on my head, none of it. Ever. Again.
Here are som pix from 2006-2007.
BTW, in 2005 when I noticed how bad the rot was getting my next door neighbor bought a Key West 2020 dual console with a Yamaha F150. This is an all composite boat, it still looks like new, and has been no trouble at all. That's what you should have! You want a V8 hot rod then buy one. Those old go fast wood cored boats are nothing but trouble. Unless you want to add fiberglass work to your areas of skills, trust me its not that much fun.

Oh wow that’s a lot of work. Thankfully I am a bodyman and definitely not afraid of some work.. BUT obviously not $35,000 worth of it! See I didn’t know that. I wonder because he said the floor was all redone and interior all redone. I would assume they would not overlook that? But maybe they just did the aesthetics not the structural..

 

[Lou C]

Ask him if he has pix, were the stringers and deck done? If he spent that much to do all that he should. I do and will give them to whoever buys mine. I have receipts from the 'glass shop for the work they did too.

 

[Roccafellas]

looking further at he ad, the boat is in Johnstown. That is right on the St Laurence and I bet they kept the boat on a trailer and put it in the water when they wanted to go for a zip... chances are its in great condition.

Yes he said it was in the Ottawa river and he just cleaned it up. He said it’s never stored in the water unless he wants to take it out. I’m hoping it’s in great condition.
He’s willing to Deliver it from Ottawa TO Sudbury!!! He wants a $500 deposit I said hey. No problem for $500 if it comes here and I don’t like it or it’s not what he said.. it goes RIGHT back.

if he’s willing to drive 12 hours plus.. he surely can’t be hiding something that crazy detrimental to the boats health? Yet I have had my fair share of scammers as well. So I’m not newbie to that.

 

[Roccafellas]

Ask him if he has pix, were the stringers and deck done? If he spent that much to do all that he should. I do and will give them to whoever buys mine. I have receipts from the 'glass shop for the work they did too.

Okay I will ask that now. Thank you.

 

[Roccafellas]

We may be overly cautious here, but its because we see way too many guys buy a boat and then find out that the wood repairs cost more than the boat cost.

If you're going to spend the big bucks, hire a marine surveyor to do a professional job, no matter what it takes to find one. Its better to blow a grand to find out you don't want the boat, as opposed to saving that money only to find out the repairs will cost you ten grand.

Overly cautious is amazing I thank every one of you for spending the time to inform me. Yes I might be gungho about it. But if each and every one of you are saying it could be rotten. I’m not going to discredit any of you. You all have experience I do not.

 

[Roccafellas]

Another thought just came to mind....

You know, the gofasts with single 454's are becoming passe'. The noise of twin 454's with 4 transom exhausts are seen more frequently.

However, the REAL head-turners are the graphics laden boats with multiple 4-stroke outboards. While twins were once thew norm, "nobody" wants a gofast unless it has at least triples.

In our fishing drift yesterday we passed an area of new builds - all million dollar homes with multiple docks. We saw several Fountains, Scouts and Formulas. All were outboards - a triple a quad and the person I know is a plumber has FIVE 300 Mercs on the back.

Now here's a boat....

Yeah that’s crazy! We got one guy up here he owns Northern RV he has a boat like that. It’s a 41’ with 4 325’s on the back. I think it’s a NORTECH or something like that. Crazy boat. I personally am not a fan of outboards what so ever lol. I love the look of inboards. But I know they are getting dated.

 

[JimS123]

There's a different story for every issue. If the same cover / toneau / bimini enclosure is used at home and at the marina, assuming the attitude of the boat is the same, why would the water intrusion be different?

If the boat has a hull leak, that's a whole different story.

A buddy of mine bought a 25 year old bowrider that was in better than mint condition. It was owned by a contractor that kept it in his heated workshop year round. The boat looked like it was brand new. Turned out the PO never dried it out. The bilge was always full. The first time out my buddy's kid jumped in off the dock and put his foot right thru the deck. The boat was rotten end to end.

A boat is the antithesis of a bathtub. One is built to keep the water in - the other to keep it out.

 

[Lou C]

It does not matter if it was in the water or not. Your house gets wood rot, right, its not in the water, its moisture in the air. Freshwater boats rot from rain water and accumulated moisture. Salt water actually does not cause rot like fresh water because the microorganisms that cause rot can't live in salt water. Remember its moisture in the air at a certain level of humidity, and temperature, that creates the conditions for wood rot. The longer those conditions exist the worse it will be. In the water, or out. Like I said my boat is dryer inside when its on the mooring, because the constant motion of the boat keeps water from collecting on one part of the canvas and leaking through.
Carpet in a boat is the devil. I ripped mine out threw it out and had it all gelcoated. That's why 15 years later its still ok.

 

[Lou C]

There's a different story for every issue. If the same cover / toneau / bimini enclosure is used at home and at the marina, assuming the attitude of the boat is the same, why would the water intrusion be different?

At home on the trailer the boat never moves, on the mooring it is always moving a bit, so no water really collects. Even after a tropical storm like we had a few weeks ago with 45 mph wind and buckets of rain.

If the boat has a hull leak, that's a whole different story.

A buddy of mine bought a 25 year old bowrider that was in better than mint condition. It was owned by a contractor that kept it in his heated workshop year round. The boat looked like it was brand new. Turned out the PO never dried it out. The bilge was always full. The first time out my buddy's kid jumped in off the dock and put his foot right thru the deck. The boat was rotten end to end.

A boat is the antithesis of a bathtub. One is built to keep the water in - the other to keep it out.

 

[JimS123]

Yeah that’s crazy! We got one guy up here he owns Northern RV he has a boat like that. It’s a 41’ with 4 325’s on the back. I think it’s a NORTECH or something like that. Crazy boat. I personally am not a fan of outboards what so ever lol. I love the look of inboards. But I know they are getting dated.

Its good that they make so many different types of products, so we can all buy what our personal opinion likes.

After owning inboards for 35 years I wouldn't own another. Outboards today are quieter, smoother and they go faster and use less gas. The boats today have tons of storage space and that big black max hanging on the back just looks sooooo cool.

 

[Roccafellas]

There's a different story for every issue. If the same cover / toneau / bimini enclosure is used at home and at the marina, assuming the attitude of the boat is the same, why would the water intrusion be different?

If the boat has a hull leak, that's a whole different story.

A buddy of mine bought a 25 year old bowrider that was in better than mint condition. It was owned by a contractor that kept it in his heated workshop year round. The boat looked like it was brand new. Turned out the PO never dried it out. The bilge was always full. The first time out my buddy's kid jumped in off the dock and put his foot right thru the deck. The boat was rotten end to end.

A boat is the antithesis of a bathtub. One is built to keep the water in - the other to keep it out.

good analogy. That’s a really eye opening story. Wow.

 

[Roccafellas]

It does not matter if it was in the water or not. Your house gets wood rot, right, its not in the water, its moisture in the air. Freshwater boats rot from rain water and accumulated moisture. Salt water actually does not cause rot like fresh water because the microorganisms that cause rot can't live in salt water. Remember its moisture in the air at a certain level of humidity, and temperature, that creates the conditions for wood rot. The longer those conditions exist the worse it will be. In the water, or out. Like I said my boat is dryer inside when its on the mooring, because the constant motion of the boat keeps water from collecting on one part of the canvas and leaking through.
Carpet in a boat is the devil. I ripped mine out threw it out and had it all gelcoated. That's why 15 years later its still ok.

Okay. Yes that makes sense thank you Sir. Sorry for the confusion. I don’t see any carpet in the boat unless i’m missing something it looks almost composite or plastic decking?

EDIT it says SEA-DECK. Is that an alternative to carpet?