FIGHT or HPDI??? Help!

[14riverrat2]

I've recently purchased a new boat and have a choice between two motors, an Evinrude 150HP Fight or a Yamaha 150HP HPDI. Both two strokes, I think, are about equal in terms of performance & fuel economy. Is this right? Also, which engine is likely to be the most dependable? Any help, from "A" wrenches and users alike, would be appreciated. Thanks.

 

[Trent]

Re: FIGHT or HPDI??? Help!

Hands down Yamaha..<br /><br />But the quality control today is real good now on the Johnnyrudes... They are working hard to get back their name.

 

[jegervais]

Re: FIGHT or HPDI??? Help!

Here's a "tid-bit" from the FLW tour: Most of the boats in the tournaments are running 200's & 225's - The Yammie's can't keep up with the Fichts and so far a Yammie has NOT passed a Ficht either.<br /><br />Trent's right about the quality control with the new Bombardier built JohnnyRudes. <br /><br />-John <br /><br /> Mercury may be #1 on the water, but not for long.

 

[trevorcday]

Re: FIGHT or HPDI??? Help!

The FICHT motors have had a terrible reliability and every new generation is supposed to be the one that is fixed. I wouldn't touch one with a ten foot pole until they have established a bit of a relibility track record (one model year would be nice). They do work great though except for that reliability thing. I don't know much about the Yamaha's so no comment on them. You didn't mention Mercury. Optimax is the only direct injection two-stroke on the narket with a proven track record over a long period of time.

 

[Trent]

Re: FIGHT or HPDI??? Help!

Hey John.. Since your a factory tech..How about some insite?? Dont ya love being in the hotseat.. <br /><br /><br />Did not mean to really do that!! Whats up with the FICHT's now??? Things seem to be going well with the new company? Im still wondering why ya have to index a sparkplug? Was that just hindsite? Or was it from the beginning??

 

[evin300]

Re: FIGHT or HPDI??? Help!

Im with John, in a few years, the ficht will be the headliner on this board. mrmerc, you seem to know a lot of bad things about the ficht, as if the merc optimax hasnt had any problems? You do realize, that OMC bought the Ficht and Orbital technology, tested them both, and sold Orbital to Brunswick, which is the Mercury Optimax.<br /><br />The Evinrude name will not be kicked around much longer. To those of you who wait for the crowds approval, you will realize this in a few years, to those of you, that do your homework, you will see this trend occur much sooner, IMHO.<br /> <br />I dont think the name "JohnnyRude" applies anymore. These motors are no longer identical twins. Ficht vs Carb<br /><br />SaltySpray, I do not own a Ficht,HPDI and Optimax. I have done alot of homework though, and yes, it is a lot of work to find the story here, If I were in John's position of having to quantify my statement, I probably would pass, as there is not enough time in the day. My guess is that Trent owns a Yamaha, and is a very loyal owner.<br /><br />See, SaltySpray, your job is to sort through the owners biases of every brand of motor, and find the real story, not a easy task! I of course, own a Evinrude, it is a 1989 carb motor, and had its share of QC problems.<br /><br />I suggest that you go to the Bombardier website, and learn more about this corporation, this is the new Evinrude, and this company can execute, I would put my money with these guys. <br /><br />Remember, its early in the game, and the crowd still thinks the Ficht is bad. A old Stock Market saying: The crowd is usually right with the trend, but wrong at the beginning and end. Good Luck!

 

[62_Kiwi]

Re: FIGHT or HPDI??? Help!

SaltySpray: Are you an "early adopter" or a "later adopter" of technology ?<br /><br />These are terms used by technology businesses. An "early adopter" is someone who is first in to buy the new models with the new technology - before the masses. For their part of the deal they get higher performance and the benefit of having the newest, latest and greatest toy in the street. The disadvantage is that they take a higher risk that they might run into problems because their new toy is not as time-tested as the older toys. The world needs more early adopters - without them we wouldn't get any new technology.<br /><br />The world is mostly full of "later adopters" who buy toys that are already popular and proven. They take a lower risk on having problems, but then their toys aren't as cool as the early adopters.<br /><br />I think OMC/Bombarier are clever in that they currently have a brand to suit each type of customer - Evinrude for the early adopter, Johnson for the later adopter. As per Evin300's comments, the later adopters will pick up the Ficht engines given time.<br /><br />If you decide which type of buyer you are, then you've then made the decision a lot easier.<br /><br />I suspect that the Yamaha HPDI is already in the "later adopter" territory as it seems to have mass approval. The Ficht appears to me to be "early adopter". I stand to be corrected by those with more expertise on engines.<br /><br />I myself admit to being a late adopter with boat engines (sorry world!). <br /><br />SaltySpray - Early or Later Adopter ?<br /><br /><br />evin300 - I agree with the JohnnyRude comment and myself use it only when thinking of older engines like mine ('97 Evinrude 115).

 

[John from Madison CT]

Re: FIGHT or HPDI??? Help!

For the love of God......you have to go with the Yamaha.

 

[dick]

Re: FIGHT or HPDI??? Help!

see above , evin300 right , must be a yamy owner.

 

[trevorcday]

Re: FIGHT or HPDI??? Help!

Optimax has had problems with fouled spark plugs. FICHT has had problems with blown up power heads.<br /><br />Hmm.

 

[Trent]

Re: FIGHT or HPDI??? Help!

Nope I dont own a Yamaha.I do own a Mariner, Mercury,Mercrusier and a Evinrude. But yes I have own them.

 

[12Footer]

Re: FIGHT or HPDI??? Help!

Does anyone know what FICHT stands for? <br />Fuel?<br /><br />Injected?<br /><br />Computer?<br /><br />H?<br />T?<br /><br />Fixed Improvements Causing Horror Tales?<br />Or somthing else having nothin to do with Fuel injected computer horror tales?

 

[Bear]

Re: FIGHT or HPDI??? Help!

What can I say. Not much. A link? Yes an old link about the FICHT updates that were made earlier.<br /> http://www.yachtworld.com/magazines/goboating/99dec/revved/ <br /><br />/Bear<br />

 

[MIKE F]

Re: FIGHT or HPDI??? Help!

Salty Spray insists on calling them FIGHT

 

[62_Kiwi]

Re: FIGHT or HPDI??? Help!

I think Salty's come up with a better name! Down here we have to be careful of our pronounciation of FICHT, as NZers have a tendency to say their 'I's as if they are 'U's - can be embarassing! <br /><br />Nobody has much to say about Salty's other option, the Yamaha HPDI except go with it. Or maybe that speaks volumes....

 

[12Footer]

Re: FIGHT or HPDI??? Help!

Hey 62, can I be an honorary NZer? My ham radio callsign is N4ZAW (no kiddin).<br />Now as far as what you call them FICHTs...<br />That's what we call them too,when they strand us 6 miles from the ramp (pronouncing them with "U"s )

 

[62_Kiwi]

Re: FIGHT or HPDI??? Help!

LOL - Sounds good to me 12Footer !<br />...and AW stands for "A Winner!"

 

[jegervais]

Re: FIGHT or HPDI??? Help!

Trent & others-<br /><br />Quality control has gone up like no other manufacturer in the industry. Yeh, I know, it had nowhere to go but up - "QC" was just 2 letters to Outboard Marine Corp. <br /><br />Bombardier is serious about it. The entire philosophy on engine assembly has been re-written. Engines are assembled in a clean, state-of-the-art climate controlled facility. All the machinery is recalibrated regularly & every assembly person is an inspector. All engines are run-tested before they leave the factory (something OMC did not do). If parts don't meet the spec's, they don't go into the motors (You've seen ths ads "Every part had to re-apply for its job..."). Motors are subjected to abuse testing that OMC had never been done before - they just tested to see if it ran. After several hundred hours, the motors are taken on by various government agencies who pound on them even more - and so far, so good.<br /><br />Mrmerc, I expected the response you gave - I don't intend to "flame" anyone or start a war (I guess we're just gonna' have to "lock horns" occasionally .) You must live a sheltered life, but here are a few facts: Lets see, 1998 Oil reservoirs, oil pump gaskets, oil pump to cylinder oil lines, starter motors, kinked fuel distribution lines, fuel rails and fuel injector retainer bolts (and that's just the 1st TSB). Also belt tensioner and alternator bracket (remember all that belt dust?) and of course the flywheel cover with a redesigned air filter so the belt dust wouldn't get into the air compressor and trash it. Then there was the oil check valve kit, so oil wouldn't drain back out of the lines (yep, that failed a few powerheads). 1999, that stupid end cap on the compressor - Oh, by the way, those compressors hate salt water. Let's see 2000, the end cap again, this time leaking oil. 2001 - Direct Injectors coming apart and pintles falling into the combustion chamber (bet that trashed a few powerheads), an incorrect hook up caused sensor voltage to go crazy, burning up ECU's and causing idle speeds in excess of 2000 rpm's (try docking or trailering at that speed!), Spark plug fouling, hmmm... fuel rails and t-stats (120 degree t-stats too, ain't that kinda' too cool???). More spark plug fouling issues and replacement ECU's. O yes, don't forget the Smart Craft Guages (Yeh, I know, they're not an Opti problem, but its the only engine that they'll work with) more problems with reference voltages causing hi-idle speed (1200 rpm this time, at least if the operator is "strong armed", he has a chance to get it out of gear before the boat goes over the dock!) Oh, I almost forgot - several thousand Opti's recalled for a potential fuel leak - seems the cross over hose was rubbing on a mounting bolt. Then there was the total halt in production and sales of the 3.0 litres (200/225 hp), seems that 175 were passing them like rockets...<br /><br />Nah, I'd say the "Opti-Pop" (also known as the "Oil-Max") have been relatively trouble-free. <br /><br />Sure Evinrude and Johnson have a long row to hoe, but like I said earlier - Mercury may be #1 on the water, but not for long.<br /><br />-John<br /><br />BTW - Ficht is the name of the family who own the engineering firm in Germany that originally developed this particular direct injection technology.

 

[Trent]

Re: FIGHT or HPDI??? Help!

John...<br /><br />That was GREAT!!<br /><br />Iv not bought a "Johnnyrude" in several years..Not because I dont like them..Just the package at the time was not what I was looking for.. Now you got me thinking different!!<br /><br />Thanks for the info John..You might want to share that on the other board also?<br /><br />I really LOVE AMERICAN MADE STUFF!!<br /><br />And Yes John I do remember someone working for the Dark Side..

 

[DJ]

Re: FIGHT or HPDI??? Help!

GEEZ!<br /><br />You folks are brutal. I like the old and the new tech. stuff.<br /><br />Salty, DO NOT think for a minute that if you buy a Yam, you're set for life. Man still made it,designed it and last time I took a reality check, man is not perfect. There are some other threads out there that will give you some real low down Yam's also.<br /><br />I have a lot of faith in Bombardier to straighten things out. They DO NOT fool around with quality issues. They build AIRCRAFT engines also. Engine failure in an aircraft is simply NOT ACCEPTABLE under ANY circumstrances. I've had some experience with them. They are some of the finest available. Make Lycomings and Continentals look like 1930's technology-exactly what they are. <br /><br />Let's not all forget that opinions are opinions. <br /><br />Just because it's Japanese doesn't mean it's perfect. I cite the NUMMI catastrophe out of Claifornia. NUMMI was a joint venture with GM and Toyota to build Corolla's and Nova's. The cars were built on the same line, with the same workers, with the same parts (except badges and grills) yet the Nova's warranty claim rate was almost 100% higher-GO FIGURE. Perceptions are rarely reality.<br /><br /><br />Buy what you want from a reputable dealer. Just make sure you buy enough power for your application. I have NEVER heard anyone complain about an overpowered boat.