FIGHT or HPDI??? Help!

evin300

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Jun 4, 2001
Messages
384
Re: FIGHT or HPDI??? Help!

Man, I gotta love this thread! Illinois John, 62_kiwi and djohns19, wow!, great posts!
 

Trent

Captain
Joined
Nov 17, 2001
Messages
3,333
Re: FIGHT or HPDI??? Help!

Djohns...Look at the first page of the manual on "their engines" <br /><br />I do have alot of experience with (as you say)aircraft engines. Certain models are very good and a few are junk!! The 503 is bullit proof in my book..!! But the 582 has its problems!! I see them all the time.. But you cannot connect the outboards with the aircraft engines just like you cannot connect them with Continental and Lycoming..Cause they are different. Some do have their problems as any engine does... It depends on the application and the work performed on them. Just my thoughts
 

jegervais

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jan 18, 2002
Messages
646
Re: FIGHT or HPDI??? Help!

More food for thought... Recently a 29' Aquasport was rigged with twin 225's. The port engine a 2002 225hp Ficht and the starboard engine a 2002 225hp 4-stroke Yamaha. The boat was loaded with 6 people and some photo gear, with the Ficht tilted completely out of the water, the 225 Yammie could not plane the boat, it just plowed water (at around 18-20 mph I think it was). On the other hand, with the Yammie tilted as far up as it would go (in other words the gearcase was dragging in the water), the 225 Ficht not only got the boat on plane, but managed to get the boat moving at 32 mph.<br /><br />For the record, I currently own: a '60 Johnson 10hp, a '92 Yammie 9.9 4-stroke, a '00 Merc 4-stroke and an '01 Evinrude 150 Ficht - they're all good motors. But **** I'd like to have an '02 Evinrude...<br /><br />-John<br /><br /> :p Mercury may be #1 on the water, but not for long. :p
 
D

DJ

Guest
Re: FIGHT or HPDI??? Help!

Trent,<br /><br />I think you can connect them. Parent companies are parent companies. Engineering activities all the way through research are all given the same basic marching orders. Same goes for marketing.<br /><br />You're right, they are different, other aircraft engines and Rotax's. But, they DO the same thing. Conti' and Lycoming should have advanced there designs-they decided not to.<br /><br />We're getting away from the question. My point was basically that perceptions are just that. I'm just giving BMCA a little credit here for taking on a mess and possibly making a silk purse out of it. You gotta give em' a little credit.<br /><br />I just cringe a little bit when I have NEVER seen a negative word on this thread about Yam engines. Reality is that, that is simply not the case. <br /><br />I do NOT like knocking one product over another until I've convinced MYSELF that there is something inferior about one design and company over another.<br /><br />I guess it's the American in me. We always root for the underdog. Remember we were one once. :) <br /><br />I hope Salty takes this with as what I would say, to paraphrase Schematic: "a grain of salt".<br /><br />It's his money. he'll make the best decision for himself.<br /><br />Let's get back to trying to fix some of these problems out here for the good subscribers.
 

Major Woods

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Jun 7, 2001
Messages
317
Re: FIGHT or HPDI??? Help!

Interesting tidbit. I am the Quality Assurance Engineer (company name withheld) that supplied OMC now Bombardier with engine parts. Got a call the other day of a customer complaint (Bombardier) that several of our parts failed incoming inspection. The engineer on the other end of the phone told me that "now that Bombardier has taken over OMC that quality is first and foremost to once again become a leading outboard producer". Come to find out OMC had no inspection of parts prior to assembly, when failures were found, it usally was from a customer. :mad: Very bad for business. I'll be on a plane next week for a visit to provide root cause, corrective action and get a good a** chewing from the new owners. By the way I own a 1998 40 hp Evinrude and a 2001 200hp Yamaha and speaking from a quality point the yamaha is generally better.
 
D

DJ

Guest
Re: FIGHT or HPDI??? Help!

Major Woods,<br /><br />Make sure you share your outboard preference with your new customers. I'm sure they will appreciate it.
 

VANGELIS

Cadet
Joined
Feb 4, 2002
Messages
6
Re: FIGHT or HPDI??? Help!

I have tested 200 HP HPDI and FIGHT on same 25 ft RIB inflatables. HPDI is way ahead on sound(very quiet)and reliability.I have bought the HPDI and it was a strong selling point when I decided to change my boat for another type.
 

SeaDawg

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Dec 3, 2001
Messages
418
Re: FIGHT or HPDI??? Help!

Fellas, I know all the 2-stroke manufacturers are trying real hard to figure out how to keep these motors using less and less oil, but if the computer sneezes just one time on any of these engines (ANY BRAND), you've worn something. And most of the time, it costs you big bucks.<br /><br />A 2-stroke has to use some oil. Period. It's their design. And, the less oil they try to make them use, the better chance for failure.<br /><br />The sad thing is, I think all of the 2-stroke manufacturers are going to wake up one day, and realize that they have spent all of their money and time trying to make a 2-stroke into a 4-stroke, and they could have redesigned a lightweight powerful (4-stroke)engine with a lot less problems and complications.<br /><br />Now, 2-stroke guys, blow me out of the water.........
 

62_Kiwi

Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined
Jan 20, 2002
Messages
1,159
Re: FIGHT or HPDI??? Help!

SeaDawg - I sort of agree with you a little bit, but from a different angle.<br /><br />All I want is simplicity, reliability and responsiveness in a boat engine. As far as I'm concerned, there was never anything wrong with the good ole basic 2 stroke JohnnyRude design - less moving parts, less complications (things to go wrong) and plenty of quick responding grunt. I still enjoy the sound and the smell of a well tuned 2 stroke - part of the fun of being out on the water.<br /><br />I'm supportive of technical progress, but everything I've read on this thread makes me think the new Bombardier Johnson 2 stroke is the motor to get for me. ;) ( And I like the sound of what's happening with quality control on the new Evinrudes & Johnsons )
 

John from Madison CT

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Oct 14, 2001
Messages
176
Re: FIGHT or HPDI??? Help!

Like, I said...For the Love of God...buy a Yamaha.<br /><br />All kidding aside, I'm sorry but Ficht has yet to be around long enough to be deemed reliable, especially based on the initial disaster.....OMC, same thing with the Optimax, just ask Jurisprudenc if he'd buy another Opti.<br /><br />Maybe a "working" Ficht does have some more guts...........it's just that Yamaha has them all beat hands down when it comes to reliability. Carb'd, EFI, HPDI, or 4 Stroke...they all seem to work reliably for Yammie.<br /><br />John
 

Jacques321

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jul 23, 2001
Messages
129
Re: FIGHT or HPDI??? Help!

Are you limiting yourself to those two choices because of price or are you just determined to buy a 2 stroke because you think they're faster?<br /><br />Look at 4 strokes before you make your move to buy an engine. Common sense will then tell you that buying a 4 stroke is the smarter thing to do! The technology is proven and is simply more reliable in the long run than a two stroke F/I.
 

dick

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Oct 4, 2001
Messages
433
Re: FIGHT or HPDI??? Help!

Tell that to the Suzuki 70hp owners that have had the core plugs pop in the head and fill the motor with water or had the tangs at the base of the cam snap and loose oil pressure!And those merc owners(Yammy)who have spun mains,and by the way if you own a merc 75/90 and run in the saltchuck , drop the gearcase and check the copper water tube !
 

14riverrat2

Cadet
Joined
Jan 26, 2002
Messages
21
Re: FIGHT or HPDI??? Help!

WOW! Ask and you will receive. Thanks to all for your replies. I've been away since I made the initial post - just returned. I thought there was probably a lot of negative sentiment around regarding Ficht & "JonnyRude" but had no idea it would be pounded so deeply into the ground. :eek: <br />They obviously have a long road to hoe if they're going to recover from the OMC debacle - a prime example of what happens when things get to far out of hand.<br /><br />SeaDawg, <br />I think you've got a good point regarding 2 strokes. They're all so high tech & highly engineered - operating on a fine edge, easy to fall off the wrong side - and when they do the results can be catastrophic. I really think 4S is a better choice as far as reliaibility is concerned.<br /><br />However.<br /><br />Jacques321,<br />To the best of my knowledge no one makes a new 4S in to 150 to 175HP range. If they did I'd probably buy it in a heart beat. :) <br /><br />Overall I'm not pleased with my available choices. I think I'll buy LARGEoars. :(
 
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