Evinrude E-Tec vs Mercury OptiMax

[Sevcrist]

Re: Evinrude E-Tec vs Mercury OptiMax

Ben Walker<br /><br />Your analogy of the computer and the boat motor CPU doesn't even make sense. As far as the parts are concerned, you need to make a trip over to the schematics link that myoutboards left and if you are honest you will change your mind about that false proposition.<br /><br />Do I have an ax to grind against 2 strokes? No, I just don't think much of the Etec in comparison to a standard EFI 4 stroke.

 

[tommays]

Re: Evinrude E-Tec vs Mercury OptiMax

<br /><br />neither one seems anymore complex than this 1993 GM 3.3 MPI motor which i believe has every bell and whistle they could think of<br /><br />its now 2005 and it has been the most reliable car we have ever owned even the old simple ones<br /><br />why because they did a good job and used good parts<br /><br />tommays

 

[Bwalker]

Re: Evinrude E-Tec vs Mercury OptiMax

I did take a look at the schematics. Doesnt look more complex than a four cycle to me.<br />BTW I can see arguing this point with you is pointless so i am going to bow out, but ponder this question. If a EFI four stroke is truely less complex who does it always weight more when compared to a Etec motor of the same CC?

 

[Sevcrist]

Re: Evinrude E-Tec vs Mercury OptiMax

Etec 40hp: 240lbs-863cc<br />Mercury EFI 60hp: 248lbs-995cc<br />Mercury EFI 40hp: 216lbs-747cc<br /><br />I guess that kind of blows away the weight vs. CC argument of an Etec and a EFI 4 stroke.<br /><br />From when I briefly looked at the schematics I came up with this for an Etec 40hp vs. a Mercury 40hp EFI<br /><br />Etec Oil Pump and Tank: 26 parts and the schematic for the actual pump isn't even broken down into parts but you can see about 7 oil lines that come off it that must go to the oil squirt locations.<br /><br />Mercury Oil Pump: 10 parts and the pump is broken down into parts unlike the Etec.<br /><br />Etec Wiring Harness: 81 parts not including the EMM, a bazillion, sensors, relays, switches, diagnostic connectors and seal assemblies.<br /><br />Mercury Electrical System/Wiring Harness: 45 parts including a much simpler ECM.

 

[walleyehed]

Re: Evinrude E-Tec vs Mercury OptiMax

Do I have an ax to grind against 2 strokes? No, I just don't think much of the Etec in comparison to a standard EFI 4 stroke.

You need to do more homework....and just like when you were in school, no, the person next to you can't do it for ya...<br />There IS NO COMPARISON when talking E-Tec vs 4-stroke. <br />The E-Tec IS NOT a glorified ficht...shows "WHAT" you know..<br />Did I say they don't have a figure for 3 years??? as you mentioned???? I said They don't have a Program cost at 3 years because NOTHING MAJOR HAS BROKE!!!!!<br />Do you think this engine was built and thrown into the market (like Yamaha) and left to see what happens????<br />Did you EVER wonder why no other manufacturer will dispute claims of the E-Tec smoking their engines???? Hummmmm.......Because IT DOES.<br />It's not a spin-off of anything...new sheet of paper here...If you think you have something that will beat it in ANY catagory, I'd like to see the proof.<br />Oh, I almost forgot...you don't know much about ECU/FCU, or computor processors.....you keep saying how complex the E-Tec system is, but you don't even realize how complex the 4-stroke is, which you have proven you don't understand by what you post...?????<br />Apparently the extra weight of a 4-stroke doesn't strike you as a factor either....I don't get it....

 

[walleyehed]

Re: Evinrude E-Tec vs Mercury OptiMax

From when I briefly looked at the schematics I came up with this for an Etec 40hp vs. a Mercury 40hp EFI<br />

Compare the lower units of the 2 and see if ya can figure that one out.....

 

[Sevcrist]

Re: Evinrude E-Tec vs Mercury OptiMax

Wallyhead,<br /><br />You must have missed my previous post. I just proved all of your allegations are wrong. You're right about one thing though. You don't get it.

 

[Bwalker]

Re: Evinrude E-Tec vs Mercury OptiMax

"when compared to a Etec motor of the same CC? "<br />Notice I made the above comment. I could easly spin the numbers as you have done. The etech 40hp is actually the same motor as the 50,60. Yamaha does the same thing with there four strokes. in other words a larger higher HP motor is derated to make the lower HP rating. Compare CC to CC and tell me what you get.

 

[Sevcrist]

Re: Evinrude E-Tec vs Mercury OptiMax

You guys don't comprehend what you read vey well.<br />The Mercury 60hp is 995cc at 248lbs.<br />The Etec 60hp is 863cc at 240 lbs.<br /><br />The Mercury gives you 132cc more at 8 more pounds. The weight to cc comparison is far in Mercury's favor.<br /><br />As a side note, I'm about done playing with you Evinrude fanatics. You have been proven wrong time and time again but you will not accept it. So I think it's time for me to move on.

 

[Bwalker]

Re: Evinrude E-Tec vs Mercury OptiMax

BTW Yamha f-90 = 370lb<br />E-Tec 90 = 320lb<br />Merc 90 = 386lb

 

[Bwalker]

Re: Evinrude E-Tec vs Mercury OptiMax

"The Mercury gives you 132cc more at 8 more pounds. The weight to cc comparison is far in Mercury's favor."<br /> It is in that instance, but as a rule its not. FWIW the 40-90 where the first E-tecs to be released. The next version will certainly be lighter. The merc 60 you are talking about is a new motor and as such has the latest four stroke technology.<br />BTW I am no Evinrude fanatic. I do not, nor have I ever owned a evinrude or a Johnson. My fllet currently is plit between 16 mercs and 24 Yamahas.

 

[Bwalker]

Re: Evinrude E-Tec vs Mercury OptiMax

Lets compare 250hp motors.<br /> Yamaha F-250 = 592<br /> E-Tec 250 = 516<br /> Merc verado 250 = 635<br /> or how about 200hp<br />Verado = 635<br />E-Tec = 516<br />Yamaha = 583

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Evinrude E-Tec vs Mercury OptiMax

And any four stroke cylinder delivers a power stroke once every other revolution whereas a two stroke delivers a power stroke every rev. Hence, better performance from a smaller displacement. A two stroke almost always outperforms a larger displacement four stroke. As for emissions, what about the disposal of used oil from four stroke engines? As for parts counts, a four cylinder 16 valve head alone has over 160 parts not counting head bolts and gaskets and timing belt tensioner hardware. Wait til timing belts begin breaking and engines are destroyed as valves collide with pistons. I guess one need only visit the Mercury Honda, and Yamaha Outboard forum to see the EFI four-stroke problems and then visit the Johnson/Evinrude forum to compare them with the three year old E-tec problems.

 

[JRJ]

Re: Evinrude E-Tec vs Mercury OptiMax

Originally posted by Sevcrist:<br />[QB] <br />As a side note, I'm about done playing with you Evinrude fanatics. <br /><br />Thankyou, and just what motor do you run?

 

[walleyehed]

Re: Evinrude E-Tec vs Mercury OptiMax

And, as for me not understanding anything, I'd like to know how many E-Tecs you have run???? Did you get to run several of the prototypes in testing such as I????? I doubt it...<br />You've proven only your lack of knowledge and the fact YOU don't get it....<br />You must own a Force.....

 

[BillP]

Re: Evinrude E-Tec vs Mercury OptiMax

Originally posted by Sevcrist:<br /> BillP<br /><br />"I doubt an 50 eTec checkup at 3yrs/300hrs would be $900-$1000." I hope you're prepared to bend over when your 3 years are up. Doubting is a long ways from knowing.<br /><br />The more likely scenario is the ETec owner taking the motor down to the dealer again because the lower unit blew out after 2 years of no service or the EMM malfunctioned. I'd rather spend a few minutes of maintenance on my 4 stroke for piece of mind than to buy into some 3 year no service marketing ploy/pipe dream.

That's funny. I've been "bending over" with the 4 stoke for years and already stated why. It isn't hearsay or opinion from reading web sites. Many more 4 stroke owners will learn about it after the "new" of owning a 4 stroke wears off. <br /><br />Also, any new kid on the block knows modern ob lower units will run 2-3yrs or 300hrs without maintenance of any sort. It's done all the time. You seem to have this conception that most boat owners maintain their engines on a good PM schedule...not in the real world once the motor is out of warrantee. <br /><br />All I can say is "different strokes for different folks." <br />

 

[whofan]

Re: Evinrude E-Tec vs Mercury OptiMax

Anyone who has ever picked up a wrench knows which is more complex. Sevcrist is a troll!

 

[Bwalker]

Re: Evinrude E-Tec vs Mercury OptiMax

My go around with four strokes wasnt a good one. In 02 we bought Merc 30 hp four strokes for use at our lodge. They where bloated, underperforming pigs, had quit a few problems and the added maintenance was a pain. Not to mention the fact that they had the nasty habit of grenading a motor if someone hit a rock at full throttle(which isnt uncommon in the lodge business). It seems the the impact would cause the timing chain/belt to slip causing the valves to hit the pistons. They where also less tollerant of moisture in the fuel which is very common in remote locations up here. It only took a little water reaching the carb to make the engine not run right. To fix this problem you had to take the carbs off and blow compressed air through all jets and orifices to clean out the water.<br /> With that said fours strokes and compliant two strokes have come a long ways since then, but given the choice I would take a traditional two cycle any day of the week over either.

 

[Mercathode]

Re: Evinrude E-Tec vs Mercury OptiMax

Get the Merc...

 

[north40]

Re: Evinrude E-Tec vs Mercury OptiMax

If you want a snowmobile get a Bomb; if you want an outboard motor, get a Merc. End of story!