Elto 12HP Motor

sirskippy

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I have an Elto Motor??? it is a 12HP 2 stroke. Made in Peterborough, Ontario, Canada this one is giving me real problems. It seems like it's not getting fuel properly, but we have checked everything that we can see and all seems to work well. It runs but slower than the 6hp I have, it will also sputter and die. This one really has me scratching my head. Any Ideas?<br />Thanks<br />Dean :confused:
 

steelespike

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Re: Elto 12HP Motor

Have you checked spark and compression?If you give us the model number we could probably be more helpful.If no model number a discription would help.Shift?remote tank?etc.
 

sirskippy

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Re: Elto 12HP Motor

Hello,<br />The Model is 12d12e, the serial is:>19571. <br />The tank is on top of the motor. It has the old magneto system, 2 cyliner. Anymore info Needed?<br />Compression is good, and we get great spart on it.<br />Not sure what the spacing for the plug is supposed to be.<br />Thanks Dean
 

Paul Moir

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Re: Elto 12HP Motor

You know that sounds a lot like a Gale number. Gale was one of the divisions of OMC along with Johnson and Evinrude which made engines for distribution by third parties. Eaton Vikings, Goodyear SeaBees, that sort of thing.<br />12D12 would be a '56 12hp. I think that this engine is based off the 19.94 CID Johnson/Evinrude 14-15hp from the early 50's. That engine was available through the 60s as a commercial Johnny/Rude called the Workhorse or Worktwin.<br />If all that's correct, the spark plug should be a Champion J6C gapped at .030". Does it use the same coils as your 6hp? Or is it the older (more reliable) system?<br /><br />EDIT: Found a pic of a 12hp Gale built Sea King:<br /> Click here.<br /><br />3) canyousee?
 

sirskippy

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Re: Elto 12HP Motor

Hi Paul, Thanks for the info, i had a feeling it was an OMC, it has the same coils as my 6. <br />Thanks, any Idea's of what could be blocking the gas flow?<br />Dean
 

Paul Moir

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Re: Elto 12HP Motor

Ok, if it's got the same coils it's definitely a Gale 12hp. That simplifies a lot of things like parts, etc.<br />First make sure both sparks can jump a 3/8" gap. (Plugs out and good pull, it doesn't have to do this always just prove it can be done.)<br />If I'm not mistaken, that ought to use the pressure tank system. Is it holding pressure? That is, after you shut it down and open the fuel tank vent, do you get a rush of air? Operating the primer while it's running bad might also offer clues.<br />How do the spark plugs firing ends look or compare?
 

sirskippy

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Re: Elto 12HP Motor

The Plug ends look great,checked the gap, and are set exactly .030 It is the pressure tank system, and if the air lock is closed, once it has run and you open the valve, it sucks air in. will check the primer, and see.<br />thanks<br />Dean
 

Paul Moir

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Re: Elto 12HP Motor

I hope you ment blows air out. :) <br /><br />Test with a 3/8" gap. It's important to see if the ignition system is running healthy. Jumping a .030" gap at atmospheric pressure is nothing like jumping a .030" gap with fuel/air at 6x+ atmospheric pressure. Princess Auto has a cheapy variable gap spark checker (< $5) or you can make one yourself with a board and a couple nails in it.
 

sirskippy

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Re: Elto 12HP Motor

Sorry, got my in and out confused, yes. out.<br />Ok, I will check the plugs and see.<br />Thanks Captain Moir.<br />Dean
 

Paul Moir

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Re: Elto 12HP Motor

I think we're miscomunicating. You'll find it's impossible to set a plug to more than about 1/8". What I'm saying is to rig up a spark gap. This can be accomplished by driving two nails into a board 3/8" apart. Find a nail that fits the spark plug boot well. Then attach a wire to one nail and connect the other end of the wire to the engine block. Then attach the spark plug boot to the other nail, and give the pull-start a pull. If it jumps between the two nails, you can be sure the spark isn't leaking out anywhere else on you.<br />Almost all of the small old OMC outboards I see have one or more cracked coil and will not pass the test. Many of those outboards do actually fire properly at idle, but once the rpms pick up they arc over. So you get an engine that just doesn't seem to take off. Sometimes they kick back in at full throttle intermittantly.
 

sirskippy

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Re: Elto 12HP Motor

I understand the gap test. but I appreciate the clarification.<br />Thanks<br />Dean
 

Paul Moir

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Re: Elto 12HP Motor

Just wanted to make sure. :) <br />(Can you tell I distrust the coils? :D )
 

sirskippy

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Re: Elto 12HP Motor

yeah, so do I, any suggestions on where I can get them from?<br />Thanks
 

Paul Moir

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Re: Elto 12HP Motor

themarinedoctor.com in Saskatoon or marinemanifold.com in BC. Part number is 18-5181 if they're identical to the ones in the 6hp. I don't think iboats ships 'em up to Canada, but I've found it's better just to order them from an in-country supplier anyway.<br />I like the aftermarket coils (18- numbers) better than the Stock ones. But if you want you can get them from your local Johnny/Rude dealer for around $40 CAD each. Maybe between the 6hp and the 12hp you can find a pair of good ones to test with.
 

sirskippy

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Re: Elto 12HP Motor

hi all, I just got a new set of coils for this one, and it helped quit alot, but now i have a new problem. It starts first pull (Great), and it sounds like it is working great (Yippee), but then it shudders and stalls. It does this everytime, idling or reving. I am getting really frustrated with it but I really want to get it going for bass opener. Any suggestions? PS. the shudder sometimes comes with a clacking sound.<br />Thanks<br />Dean
 

Paul Moir

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Re: Elto 12HP Motor

Do you have to re-prime the engine to start it again? How long does it run?
 

sirskippy

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Re: Elto 12HP Motor

Hi, well it takes a half a dozen pulls to get it going again, and it only goes for about 10-15 secs, then cluck cluck, dead?<br />Dean
 

Paul Moir

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Re: Elto 12HP Motor

Sure sounds like a fuel delivery problem. Try pumping away with the primer on the tank while it's (breifly) running and see if it helps or harms. I forgot to ask whether you need choke it to re-start the engine.<br />Also, reset the mixture controls by taking them off the carb, turning in the controls (clockwise) all the way until they seat lightly, and back out the idle mix control 1 and 1/2 turn and the high speed one out 1 turn. Try adjusting them to get better running. The carb may have been adjusted far rich when it was running on one.
 

sirskippy

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Re: Elto 12HP Motor

This is a gravity flow tank, any suggestions on where you prime the gas? Can't see anything obvious...<br />Thanks<br />Dean
 

Paul Moir

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Re: Elto 12HP Motor

LOL, I knew that. :) Somehow I had it in my head this was a remote pressure tank setup, so ignore all the talk of primers, closing vents and such.<br />Make sure you've got adequate flow to the carb. On some of the tanks there's a fuel filter up inside them just above where the fuel line comes off it, which will clog up. Simply pull off the carb line and make sure gas flows freely from it.<br /><br />PS - you first posted Elco, Elto makes a lot more sense. In 1907, founder Ole Evinrude sold off his share of the Evinrude rowboat motor company. In 1920, he formed his own competing outboard motor company and called it 'ELTO' for Evinrude Light Twin Outboard - his latest outboard. His former buisness partner and owner of the Evinrude Rowboat Motor Company had foolishly rejected his design. Fast forward to 1929. The old Evinrude Rowboat Motor company isn't doing well at all, Elto has got very good sales, but Johnson is doing best of all. Along comes Foster Briggs (founder of Briggs and Stratton) and works out a merger between Elto, Evinrude, and another outboard company. They called the merged OMMC. Fast forward again to 1935, Johnson motors is hit hard by the depression - worse than OMMC. So OMMC buys up Johnson Motors. Now Johnson had a plant in Galesburg, IL which OMC set up to make private label outboards - Gales. These are sold all over as various brands, in Canada via Eatons as 'Viking Outboards' and also Eltos. The Canadian Gale/Eltos lasted a fair bit longer than they did down in the states, where the name was dropped in 1939.
 
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