Edelbrock 1409 lean?

ckraker

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Edelbrock 1409

Working on an 89 4.3 just rebuilt engine and installed a1409 edelbrock carb. Since this is just a 4.3 i installed the 1485 jet/metering rod kit.

Got it out on the lake today and it's pretty doggy. Max rpm is 3700, it runs out decent but stumbles and hesitates on acceleration. At first i thought maybe i was drowning it in fuel, but after reading a bit, it sounds more likely that it's starving for fuel. Anything past 3/4 throttle it's a constant bog.

Any thoughts are appreciated. I'm thinking about putting the stock Jets back in and seeing how it does even though they are for a v8.

Is there a good way to tell if it's a lean vs rich condition without pulling plugs?
Thanks for any help.
 

gm280

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Could apply a choke and see if the RPMS speed up. Then you would rule out overly rich...
 

ckraker

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Good thought..... That why i like this forum.


I did end up pulling a plug. It looked white. Wonder what gives? The kit was made specifically for this engine. Would an aftermarket cam make that big of a difference in fuel requirements?
 

achris

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How 'aftermarket' is the cam? Much more than stock and you may be pulling water back into the cylinders (it's called reversion). That would account for your lack of performance. The 1485 kit is usually pretty close to the final requirement, for a stock cam.
 

ckraker

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Unfortunately i cannot answer that, because i don't know what the previous owner installed. I always assumed it was stock but this issue has me questioning . Sad because i just had the engine apart and didn't check numbers on it.
I think the timing is at about 10 btdc at idle.... I know that's a little advanced,. Could that little bit cause my symptoms?

What else cause slow acceleration and high end bogging?

Idle screws are not turned out far..... But it idles great!

Gas flow to carb is good. New spark plugs and good compression on all cylinders.
Thanks!
 

achris

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Slow acceleration - too much propeller pitch.
High end bogging - carb flooding, running too lean, late timing, early timing....

Chris......
 

ckraker

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Well..... It's not the prop, it ran well last year with this propeller.

I checked timing,. I set it at 8 btdc at idle and it's max advance I'm guessing is about 16 btdc. Which i know doesn't seem like much but my buddy's boat ( which happens to be sitting right next to mine in the lake does the exact same for advance. Same year same engine) From what I've read most people say it should be at about 22 I've also read 20 different articles and heard 20 different numbers. So I'm back to the carb

Looking down the carb while riding it appears to be dumping a lot of fuel.... But pulling the plug and seeing the white suggest otherwise (see photo). I guess my next step is putting the old Jets back in.

I don't like that option considering it's basically making the statement that edelbrock has been sending the wrong jets in there conversion kit for 25 years. I know that's a false statement..... But I'm out of ideas.
Frustrated
Still open to suggestions.
Thanks
 

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ckraker

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Let me try this again in the correct forum...oops

Got a newly rebuilt 1989 4.3 mercruiser. Put a new edelbrock 1409 on it and fouled out the plugs, almost immediately. Called the guys that built it for me and concluded that the Jets were too large. (1409 is designed for a v8) Bought the 1485 kit from edelbrock which is designed specifically for the 4.3. after i installed the new Jets and metering rod took it out on the lake. Results... It's a dog. Sluggish on acceleration and won't pass 3500 rpm. It runs sort of decent until you go over 3/4 throttle, then it really bogs. 20 minutes and pulled a plug. It's white, see photo.

I can see fuel dumping into the carb, looks like a LOT but apparently looks can be deceiving. I suspect it's just running lean, but can't figure out why with the Jets installed that edelbrock recommended.

I tried blaming ignition timing, but i don't think that's the problem. I got a good base time of 8 deg btdc. It only advanced to about 16 at the highest rpm i can hit. I read about timing all morning and there are SOOO many different numbers being thrown around. I checked my buddy's boat, same year same motor, and his advances about the same(and runs great). So I'm back at carb issues.

Any thoughts/ tips would be appreciated. I'm stuck and frustrated
Thanks
 

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gm280

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I guess you don't understand how these forums actually work. Regardless which forum you initially start your thread in, everyone gets to read the new posts for the day. So since this is now a duplicate issue, I don't see any new responses coming... JMHO
 

ckraker

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Wow, i guess i don't know how they work. I accidently posted in the outboard forum. I figured that only people looking in that section would see the thread. I appreciate you taking the time to make your snarky comments.
 

Bondo

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I suspect it's just running lean, but can't figure out why with the Jets installed that edelbrock recommended.

Ayuh,..... I believe yer right,......

Examine the Contents of the fuel filter for anything but clean fresh gasoline,.....
 

Rick Stephens

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I have found that the Edelbrock 1409 manual is a great resource and easy to follow. You need to calibrate everything based on how far open your throttle is. Start at idle, then go to slightly open, and so on. Way I did it I would run at a given setting for a bit, then I would shutdown and pull a couple plugs and see how they look. Between jets, needles and springs you can get that carb perfectly tuned. No shortcuts though. I also found that with Vortec heads the 1485 calibration kit was super lean on my motor. I never tried the 1485 in a non-Vortec engine, so can't say it would be better, always assumed so. Your story makes me think you are way too lean though. I have thread around here somewhere discussing how the jetting, needles and springs ended up on my engine when it was finished.. See if I can find it. Runs like a scalded ape now. Love that carb.
 

Rick Stephens

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Here's the relevant part of that thread:

Anyone duplicating this on a Edelbrock 1409 mounted to a 4.3L Vortec V6, don't bother with the 1485 kit. That thing is not even close. Might be good on a pre-Vortec, but is way too lean on a Vortec with a Performa intake. Here's where I ended up

.095 (part#1426) primary jets
.092 (part#1425) secondary jets
.065" x .057" (part number 1461) meter rods
7" pink step up springs
 

achris

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I've merged the thread from Merc outboard forum with this one. Save any confusion.
 

ckraker

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Thank you achris for fixing my blunder. Than you Rick for that info.... You have given me hope! I cannot wait to get this thing all dialed in. It was hard for me to believe how lean i appeared to be with that 1485 kit. Glad to know im not the only one. So far Rick.... It appears the non vortec motors don't like that kit either.
 

Rick Stephens

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There was a whole group of us all went through the calibration process individually that all agreed fairly close to where I ended. Then a number of people have reported back to me that they were successful using those calibration numbers on their 4.3L. Can't say I know enough to say that is the right settings to be for everyone, especially since you are the first with a non-Vortec. But is probably a better place to start than anything Edelbrock will recommend. The stock V8 calibration out of the box is much too rich and the 1485 kit is uselessly lean. Where I ended up is sensible after spending days looking at their calibration graphs, trying a few things on the water and lots of testing. Now 4 years later I am still happy with the results.
 

ckraker

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I pulled my .089's out of my primaries. And went back to stock metering rods. Very much improved on low end. But still too rich as expected. I was able to turn my plugs white in the top end because i still had the . 089s in the secondaries.

I'm ordering up a 1488 kit to use Rick's recipe.... However i noticed that the metering rods he used are not a part of that kit.
Rick.... Did you order those septate? Also did some digging and found that edelbrock does recommend the 1485 kit for both vortec and non vortec.

I like progress! Thanks again.
 

gm280

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Wow, i guess i don't know how they work. I accidently posted in the outboard forum. I figured that only people looking in that section would see the thread. I appreciate you taking the time to make your snarky comments.

Sorry if you really though my comment was anything but explaining how all topics are seen. There was nothing intended but that. The reason I replied was I had seen and read your comments concerning the exact same topic initially and wanted you to know that a new thread in any other forum wasn't going to help get answers. Sorry if you took it any other way!
 

Rick Stephens

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I pulled my .089's out of my primaries. And went back to stock metering rods. Very much improved on low end. But still too rich as expected. I was able to turn my plugs white in the top end because i still had the . 089s in the secondaries.

I'm ordering up a 1488 kit to use Rick's recipe.... However i noticed that the metering rods he used are not a part of that kit.
Rick.... Did you order those septate? Also did some digging and found that edelbrock does recommend the 1485 kit for both vortec and non vortec.

I like progress! Thanks again.

Yes, I bought the parts from Summit individually. That's why I list the part numbers. I knew what I wanted and there is no kit with those parts in it. I bought a couple parts ended up not using which are still in a drawer. And Summit refunded the money I spent on the 1485 kit. So not an expensive trip.
 

ckraker

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Sorry if you really though my comment was anything but explaining how all topics are seen. There was nothing intended but that. The reason I replied was I had seen and read your comments concerning the exact same topic initially and wanted you to know that a new thread in any other forum wasn't going to help get answers. Sorry if you took it any other way!

I misread you, apologies from me too.
 
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