Domestic Spying

[txswinner]

Re: Domestic Spying

Actually, case is pending and in discovery which is being fought by defense to keep out records and to prevent doctor shopping records from be being obtained.<br /><br />Waterone and oddjob: thanks for your position and addressing the question. You are correct that Rush does get under my skin, but ok with me and thank goodness like anyone who does not like I can change the station. I love to listen to right vs. left arguements just not when totally without thought and onesided. But right again I can change the station. By the way the radical left is just as bad.<br /><br />Thread turned out to be pretty good discussion with only one show of ignorance by name calling. dogsdad JB is gonna need to talk to you. Hehehe, imagine JB coming to my aid for being called names.

 

[18rabbit]

Re: Domestic Spying

Originally posted by POINTER94:<br /> 18R,<br /><br />I was actually referring to the illegal wiretaps. But Padilla hasn't been proven innocent. And he has been indicted. He was indicted for providing - and conspiring to provide - material support to terrorists, and conspiring to murder individuals who are overseas. "Should he be alleigned with a foreign terrorist group, I don't see where he should be afforded any rights above those of any other terrorist. He relinquished those "rights" when he took up arms against the United States.

Padilla didn’t take up arms. He is a US citizen charged with terrorism based on wire taps. He is entitled to due process, no less. He hasn’t received it. And until he found guilty by a jury, he hasn’t surrendered any of his right, nor can any of his rights legally be suspended.<br /><br />Considering what Rickard Jewell was dragged thru, and how we were told of all the evidence against him, then to find out he wasn’t guilty of anything. It is the fool that will accept the word of the gvt regarding Padilla’s guilt. There’s more…and another name for you.<br /><br />Dr. Sami Al-Arian.<br /><br />Remember that University of South Florida professor that was arrested and charged with 51…FIFTY ONE counts of terrorism based on 20,000hrs of FBI wire taps? On Dec 6th a Florida jury of 12 men and women found Al-Arian not guilty of 42 of the counts of terrorism. Only two jurors were hold outs on full acquittal of the remaining 9 counts. What the two jurors said was that they couldn’t find a reason for acquitting Al-Arian on those last 9 counts. In other words, Al-Arian wasn’t held to a std of being proved guilty by the prosecution, the juror’s were looking for proof of innocents. Al-Arian has been in jail since 2003. What Al-Arian did was speak out in favor of a Palestinian state.<br /><br />Obviously, with 10 jurors voting for acquittal, the gvt is no where near proving their allegations of terrorism for Al-Arian. And Al-Arian was held up against a higher std of having to prove he is innocent.<br /><br />Based on the gvt’s cases with Jewell and Al-Arian, there is a better than 80% chance Padilla is innocent. But we won’t know unless he gets before a jury, something the gvt has been fighting tooth and nail to avoid.<br /><br />Don't get me wrong, I have no love for terrorist and say shoot them on the spot. The problem we have, everyone in this country, is that we can't trust our gvt to properly assess who is and who isn't a terrorist. We NEED to have those checks and balances in place that our constitution protects.

 

[txswinner]

Re: Domestic Spying

Never ever never give up your rights under the Constitution. That is what being a conservative is all about. Smaller govt. defending all of the rights in the Constitution. People that is not happening.<br /><br />Yes, holding the Japanese U.S. citizens in detention and taking property was wrong. Learn from it. We made the mistake of taking citizens rights away then don't do it now. I am not talking about POW or terrorist, unless US citizen. If citizen in this country THEY DO HAVE THE INALIENABLE RIGHTS OF OUR CONSTITUTION AND BILL OF RIGHTS... THAT IS PERIOD PERIOD PERIOD. No administration should have the ability to take them away from us. Not GW, not Clinton, not anyone.

 

[JB]

Re: Domestic Spying

It seems to me that our Supreme Court has been correcting Bill of Rights violations for at least the last 51 years, even when the violation is very popular with the majority of Americans.<br /><br />Why is it that many of the same people who scream about accusations of new violations object just as loudly to having those rights apply to those that they disagree with?<br /><br />FWIW, I agree with txs on this one.

 

[18rabbit]

Re: Domestic Spying

Well, that was the original intent of the Supreme Court; to give a thumbs up or thumbs down on legislation coming out of the congress. It was never intended to act as a super legislature, i.e. make law thru its ruling. That process circumvents the entire system of checks and balances. And so that the SC would have no teeth if it did make law, it was created without any enforcement authority.<br /><br />The judicial system in America is so corrupt and out of control most Americans wouldn’t believe it. The lid is coming off of what is happening in South Dakota. Every lawyer’s organization, every judge’s organization has tried to suppress it. The lies and disinformation coming from judges and lawyers (same thing) is phenomenal. It’s like rats coming out of the woodwork. So far the judiciaries of Calif, Texas, Kansas, Louisiana, Alabama, New York, and Florida have spoken out against the South Dakota initiative. Idaho is bracing for it's introduction there next year. People are really, really pissed off with the corruption in the judiciary. In S.D., they over-shot the signatures they needed by almost 50% in a very short amount of time.<br /><br />I’m amazed at how many people don’t realize any judge can intentionally break the law and not be held accountable for it or sued for damages. And yes, it happens with extreme frequency in civil cases. And some of the damages to the victims of the judicial corruption are huge.<br /><br />South Dakota is poised to change that. If it passes, state judges can be sued for INTENTIONALLY breaking the law, but not for judicial errors. I think what has the entire legal community in this country running scared of the South Dakota initiative is who will decide that a judge used ill-intent when breaking the law. It will not be lawyers and it will not be other judges, nor will it be cops or convicted felons. It will normal people, like you and me. The legal profession is in fear of being held accountable to the people of the community. Wow! What a concept!

 

[waterone1@aol.com]

Re: Domestic Spying

If 138,000 troops, a couple of aircraft carriers, thousands of planes, tanks, humvees, etc. all in another country, all being used (with congressional approval) isn't war....what is it ? It sure isn't a training exercise. Make no mistake about it, we are at war.<br />So far, from what I've heard, we are debating phone calls being listened to. We are not talking about mail being opened, bugs or listening devices being placed in private homes or citizens homes being "broken into" and searched by the government. Maybe I'm old-fashioned, but I never thought the phone was truely private. Where do you think the saying "we better not discuss this over the phone " came from ?

 

[18rabbit]

Re: Domestic Spying

Originally posted by waterone1:<br /> If 138,000 troops, a couple of aircraft carriers, thousands of planes, tanks, humvees, etc. all in another country, all being used (with congressional approval) isn't war....what is it ?

It’s when a majority of congress votes to say we are at war. The US has never lost a war. <br /><br />Let’s review the non-wars we were involved in:<br /><br />Korea – unresolved with the adversarial gvt left intact<br /><br />Vietnam – we walked away with the adversarial gvt left intact<br /><br />Grenada – still not sure what that was all about, but the adversarial gvt left intact<br /><br />Iraq – left unresolved with the adversarial gvt left intact<br /><br />Iraq again – on going and it’s anybody’s guess what kind of gvt will be left behind<br /><br />Personally, I would feel a lot better about this whole thing if congress would declare war. I think war was not declared because it implies an expectation of winning without asking for permission, and by annihilating our opponent, something we don’t have a very good track record of doing when war is not declared.<br /><br />Is there any question in your mind that any part of Saddam Hussein or his gvt would have been left behind if daddy-Shrub had went into Iraq with the full blessing of a declared war the first go around?

 

[txswinner]

Re: Domestic Spying

I complained in the first Gulf war that big George did not take out Saddam, but after he explained the significance of leaving him to maintain power stability it made some sense. <br /><br />Then comes little GW wanting to play soldier, you know like a father who never played ball or mom who was never a cheerleader, trying to live his fantasy at the risk of others. Now we have total unbalance and do not know what the devil to do or where to go or when to whatever we wanted to do when we invaded.<br /><br />Big George was not my choice but I did respect him for his intelligence and his service to his country. He is an honest and forthright man that truly followed a high moral standard with total committment to our country.

 

[18rabbit]

Re: Domestic Spying

How much of a stability problem was there with the gvt’s of Germany, Italy, and Japan after they experience a real war? I don’t see how Iraq needs to be any different, unless it's not a real war with real winners and real losers.<br /><br />I have a serious problem with the needless loss of the lives of US soldiers. With our military’s resources and technology, there is no need for any hand holding with “coalition” forces during a war. If it isn’t our problem, we don’t need to be there. If it is our problem (and I think it is) then we need to take care of it and we can all hold hands when the job is done.

 

[Kalian]

Re: Domestic Spying

"Then comes little GW wanting to play soldier, you know like a father who never played ball or mom who was never a cheerleader, trying to live his fantasy at the risk of others. Now we have total unbalance and do not know what the devil to do or where to go or when to whatever we wanted to do when we invaded."<br /><br /> Give me a break. Do you guys REALLY belive that? Thats pathetic. Thats even stupider than the blood for oil drivel. Go back and read it a few times, maybe you'll see how stupid it sounds.

 

[JB]

Re: Domestic Spying

When an attacker starts describing his fantasy of his victim's thoughts and motives as an attack rationale you can tell he hasn't any real ammunition.

 

[Kalian]

Re: Domestic Spying

Thats so true, JB.

 

[txswinner]

Re: Domestic Spying

JB, Go up about 20 post and after you again read what you have permitted vs what you have threatened to strike and have struck and you will see why I will not discuss any further matters with you. You trash talk, you are totally blind, biased and onesided as a moderator, and abuse your authority. To discuss with you is like speaking to a wall because it is your way or the highway. <br /><br />18R, I think your real war proposition may be the problem. It is the whole are we playing to win and what does win mean. Who is going to sign the peace treaty?

 

[Mr.Ladyfish]

Re: Domestic Spying

Who is going to sign the peace treaty?

Hopefully there won't be any of the "holy warrior" *******s left to sign anything.

 

[18rabbit]

Re: Domestic Spying

Originally posted by txswinner:<br /> JB, ... You trash talk, you are totally blind, biased and onesided as a moderator, and abuse your authority. To discuss with you is like speaking to a wall because it is your way or the highway.

Yeah, that's what makes the big guy so darn lovable.<br />