Dilemma: Waterskiing - Sea Doo vs small outboard boat (15 ft Glastron)

Joined
May 10, 2018
Messages
16
Hello all!

This is my first post in the community :)

So here is my dilemma. Starting at the age of 9 I began waterskiing up at my cottage. It’s a fantastic sport and I fell in love with it. The problem is there is no longer a boat at the cottage, and seeing as I am now a young man the responsibility falls soley on me if I wish to ever ski again. I am simply looking for the most inexpensive and hassle-free way to waterski again.

I’ve broken down the concerns into 4 parts:

Money: So! Essentially, I am looking for a craft for the sole purpose of waterskiing. Money is definitely of importance. I see myself using this craft simply to waterski with. Maybe a few joyrides but gas money will be allocated almost exclsibely to waterskiing runs. Also, which drinks more gas? These are questions that I feel I need answered before continuing any further.

Size: I drive a 2010 VW Golf, so not the largest car. Also the storage space that I do have available is not huge. One
attraction of the sea doo is that it is smaller. In terms of boat size I'd be looking between 14 and 16 feet. Maybe at the end of the day a sea doo is not THAT much smaller and less trouble?

Reliability: Generally, which are more reliable. The outboards in my price range are 2 strokes that are 30ish years old now. In terms of the sea doo’s, for my price range they are from around 1994 to 1999. I have noticed that many of them are advertised as new rebuilt. What is up with this? Are the engines any less reliable than lets say a 80hp 2 stroke mercury?

Waterskiing and fun: Which is better to be pulled by? A 3 seater sea doo or lets say a 15ft glastron. I personally think something like a glastron 150 looks absolutely beautiful. Also, you can have people hanging out and enjoying themselves in the boat, which is not possible with the sea doo.

Anyway, I’d love your feedback on these issues!
 

jbuote

Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined
Aug 17, 2016
Messages
1,001
Hey there! :welcome:

You've come to the right place, that's for sure!

I'll start out.. I'm not a pro here first off.. :D

Personally, I think I'd rather go for the smaller boat instead of a PWC...

(Edit: Probably aluminum boats.. IF I'm not mistaken, less to go wrong and/or easier to work on hull wise than with fiberglass.. Others will advise better on AL vs Fiberglass though for "Minimum Maintenance/repair cost"..
No such thing as maintenance free though.. lol)

I think any passengers (the ski spotter) would probably be more comfortable on the boat for longer periods of time..
Since water skiing is the primary purpose, I Imagine you'd want to be on the water longer..
If spotter doesn't ski, they'd get "Less" wet in a boat than on a PWC..

If you haven't already, double check the requirements in your state/area..
In my state in the US, if you were born on or after January 1, 1986 you MUST complete a boater safety course if you are going to operate ANY PWC, or boat with an engine over 10hp...

Also, if skiing in my area, you are required to have the spotter. If on a PWC, it MUST be a 3 seater. Driver, spotter, skier must all fit on it..

So basically, double check regs in your location, and I'd vote for the smaller boat, but that's just one opinion.. LOL

More will chime in I'm sure, and you'll get the best advice to be gotten in this forum..
Even advice on how to set up whatever you go with for the best skiing possible.. (from the experienced folks.. not me.. haha)

Hope it helps and welcome again!! :)
 
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Scott Danforth

Grumpy Vintage Moderator still playing with boats
Staff member
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Jul 23, 2011
Messages
47,310
here is my take.

I grew up skiing behind a '74 14' Mirro Ski-n-Troll.... a small nible 14' aluminum boat with a 1972 50hp merc motor on it. I slalom skied, tubed, and fished from it with dad. looking back, it was the best time of my life

Boat, motor fuel, gear, trailer and beer in the cooler were less than 1100# which would be easily towed by your VW, and if you wanted to throw in a second fuel tank, some tents, bikes, etc. you could even load all that in the boat for a weekend camping.
(boat 308#, motor 150#, Fuel 48#, gear 70#, trailer 450#, beer 40#)

it sat 4 people comfortably, and with a swim ladder was easy to get in and out of.

a PWC will burn more fuel simply from the inefficiencies of the jet drive, seat less people and weigh more. most 3-person PWC's weigh in at 1100# these days and then you add fuel, gear, and trailer and your close to #2000 being towed which is the limit for your VW.

PWC's dont like to have 3 people on them just putting along at idle because they get tippy. Boats dont care.

two stoke motors will last nearly forever with proper maintenance. old mercurys will need the wiring replaced, all old motors will need fuel lines replaced, etc. most of the time you can fix an old outboard for under $100, or buy a replacment older outboard for about $500. whole rig (boat, motor, gear, trailer, etc.) can be found in the $1000 range

PWC's are generally rode hard and put away wet and any from the mid 90's will have been beaten to death. just the control module for the dash on an older seadoo will be a few hundred dollars. motors will be more. a well-maintained PWC in good shape will run you about $2500

I would go with older tinny (aluminum boat) with an outboard, enjoy the hell out of it and go from there.
 

SkiDad

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Jul 18, 2010
Messages
1,518
are you talking 2 skies or Slalom ? If you are talking slalom and you weigh any where near 200 lbs you will want at least a 75hp outboard to get up. If just 2 skies almost anything will get you up.

We skied growing up on a 15' boat with 1970's mercury outboard. I wouldn't say it was the most reliable starter. Funny to say, but both boats we had with Force engines were very reliable and easy to start. Although most will steer you away from them.

I'm concerned you won't be able to pull any of these boats - any small outboard boat and trailer is going to be around 2000 lbs.
 

GA_Boater

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
Joined
May 24, 2011
Messages
49,038
I'm concerned you won't be able to pull any of these boats - any small outboard boat and trailer is going to be around 2000 lbs.

The tinny in my sig weighs 1000 pounds with the trailer. No idea what a 2010 Golf can tow.
 

garbageguy

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
May 8, 2012
Messages
1,531
+1 on the small tinny. Full disclosure, I grew up skiing off boats and have never skied off a PWC. Taught my kids to ski from a small tinny. We now have a place on a great water-skiing lake, almost never see anyone skiing of a PWC, maybe there are several reasons for that.
 

Timr71

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Jul 19, 2012
Messages
326
I'll chime in and reiterate what these guys have already said.

I learned how to ski decades ago behind a 14' 6" Fabuglas trihull with an 85 outboard merc. it was plenty of boat to get you up and across the lake. So, I'd vote for any boat you could get over a PWC.

I skied behind a PWC a couple of seasons ago because I had a brand new ski and was dying to try it out. It's not a good substitute for a true ski boat.

Which brings me to my last point. It's great that you have a passion for skiing. If/when you ski behind a traditional tournament ski boat (inboard...like a Mastercraft, Nautique, Malibu, and any number of other brands like Ski Supreme, Ski Brendella, etc.) you'll want to keep doing it.

So, you might consider going in that direction now if you can. The thing is, you'll have to get something that's older and learn how to repair and maintain it.

Just for example, from my local craigslist, here's a 1977 Nautique for $1700. I'm sure it needs stringers and a floor. But, you're here at iBoats and there's loads of guys doing this work themselves here everyday to help you with something like this.

Good luck!
 

Leardriver

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Oct 7, 2008
Messages
373
I skied behind a Honda Aquatrax turbo many times. You drag the back end of the vessel around more in turns than you would behind a heavier boat, but that's just physics.
If you are talking about an actual SeaDoo brand, the poor reliability will cost you more than buying a boat would. A Yamaha has much better historical reliability.
I would second the other opinions that a small boat beats a PWC any day. I towed one of those 16 foot Bayliners with an 85 HP outboard in the 1980's with an '86 Honda Accord, all 98 HP carbed fury that it was. It did a fine job.
 

skibrain

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jun 17, 2004
Messages
766
Great conversation. I've skied behind a bunch of stuff, from small boats (20hp, 40hp, 50hp 70hp, 85hp....on up, to '96 Sea Doo XP 2-stroke 110hp). As a performance PWC the Sea Doo had plenty of power to pop a slalom skier right out of the water. But as a fun to drive performance craft, it was miserable for driver and spotter. At rest, it was narrow enough that with two aboard, it would just tip over while maneuvering around to get skier hooked up. It was very peaky - preferred zero mph or 30 mph plus, difficult to pull anything at medium or slower speeds (like a tube or kneeboard). A 3-person, wider PWC would likely be better as a tow craft and If part of your thing will be driving around solo, (can't find friends to bring along or drive while you ski) a PWC might be more fun.

If you will always have more people along and likely pulling skiers, a boat would be much better. 15' with 70 hp might be ideal and there are lots of them around. Fewer passengers in boat will give you better performance, so driver plus spotter plus skier is best. But towed weight will be an issue. Glastron T-152 hull is going to be around 600#. 70hp Outboard 220# Fuel and gear 100# minimum, trailer 300-400#. I bet your VW manual says the tow rating is 1,000#. An aluminum boat with 40-50hp may get you there.
 
Joined
May 10, 2018
Messages
16
Hi everyone,

Thanks for the warm welcome and the thorough responses :)

So, the very firs thing I should clarify is SLALOM. I’ve done 2 skis (of course) but slalom is what got me hooked.

I’ve taken into consideration about what most of you have said and have deciede to go with an outboard. I am still in the process of finding one. Although, I am leaning more towards fiberglass than aluminum.

This now leads to my second very important question. What size engine and length of boat is ideal for a slalomer on a budget??. I am going to look at a 15.6 Glastron with a 70hp Johnson.

There is also a 14-foot boat that has caught my eye and is in my price range. I will leave the links here if anyone cares to check. Sorry they’re in French I live in Quebec Canada. I’dbe happy to translate if anyone were interested lol. I would just like to know whether a 14-foot boat with a 70hp is too small to slalom with?

Thanks again :)


https://www.kijiji.ca/v-powerboat-m...er/1354971727?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-view-details.html?adId=1342182358
 

skibrain

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jun 17, 2004
Messages
766
First boat in your link looks better to me. Each look like they might need some work, but if they start easily, accelerate well, and are smooth at wide open throttle (others here can give you a thorough list of things to look at with a water test) that is most important and they would work great for slalom skiing. You will need to pay attention to the prop. A higher pitch like a 19" or 21" will give higher speed but a weak hole shot for pulling you out of the water. A 15" pitch would be the strongest start, but pretty limited on top end (guessing 35-37 mph). I'd say a 17" pitch about ideal for what you want to do. Again, lots of threads on this site about props and how to optimize for what you want.

I owned a Glastron GX-150 w/90 hp for a few years and it was a fun boat. We skied a lot with it.

Limit your passengers to a spotter and you will have plenty of power. 4 people in a small, light weight and you may struggle to get a slalom skier out of the water.

You can probably do a search for year, make and model of boat to find out what the weight of the hull is. Decide from there if you're comfortable towing it. Have a fun summer!
 

KD4UPL

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Feb 13, 2010
Messages
653
Yeah, Slalom is important. There's no way I'd try that behind a PWC. You will pull the PWC all over the place.
In general, PWC are a blast for about 20 minutes. After that, I'm glad to have a real boat under me.
 
Joined
May 10, 2018
Messages
16
Hey guys, thanks again for all the input!

And what about length of boat? I feel like there must be a minimum length requirement for a good slalom boat. Is a 14 footer too short and easier to move the bow around than let's say a 15 or 16 footer with the same sized engine?
 

jimmbo

Supreme Mariner
Joined
May 24, 2004
Messages
12,944
There many factors as to what makes a good small tow boat. A boat with a wide transom will pull a skier up easier than a narrower transom. A hull with some deadrise will track straighter than a flat bottom once the skiers starts cutting back and forth. If weight is an issue(towing vehicle limitations) a 15 stripped utility aluminum V hull with a tiller outboard in the 40 - 50 hp range will have more than enough power to pull an adult out on one ski and still deliver 30mph if propped properly. Of course, being light mass wise, it will still get pulled around by a Slalom skier on hard cuts.

In the very early 80s, after the old man sold the runabout which was really good for skiing, we resorted to using our 14 ft car topper with a 35 on for skiing, slaloming included, we were about 190 - 200 lbs and it pulled us up and towed us about 28mph. We also had the same boat with a 25 on it and used it too
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jimmbo

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This is what I learned to Water Ski behind, did 3 deep water Slalom starts behind it in 1974, I weighed about 165lb.
58 Skagit with a 63 40 Johnson
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Brochure says the boat weighed 335 lbs. I don't think so
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Joined
May 10, 2018
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Hey guys!

So I've gone to see four boats in the last week. Of the four the best option appears to be a Glastron gt 150 with a 1990 Suzuki 85hp. I've done some research and some suggest against this boat for slalom. I've really been trying to find a boat with a ski pylon already installed but it has not been easy. What are your thoughts for this boat if I install a ski pylon?

Thanks!

Oh, and here's a pic of the Glastron!!

32916039_10213964992873346_5593909030016778240_n.png
 

jimmbo

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May 24, 2004
Messages
12,944
Here's a couple of pics of a Vanguard Banshee(a flip/copy of the GT150 pulling up a skier, this boat had a 115 on it. I was back on shore about 600ft. There is 75ft between the skier and the boat

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This boat was just a few inches longer than the GT150 but for a 15 1/2 footer was a good little skiboat. I had one for 14 yrs
 

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Joined
May 10, 2018
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Hey, thanks a lot for the photo!

And that is precisely my fear. The boat looks like it's making a 45 degree angle with the water. Isn't that not ideal? Or even scary. I feel like I should maybe be looking for a boat that wants to sit more firmly in the water.

Maybe something like this? Ideally I much prefer the look of the Glastron, but at the end of the day the boat is just the end to my means, which is to have a solid slalom machine.

%24_59.JPG
 

skibrain

Senior Chief Petty Officer
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Jun 17, 2004
Messages
766
The GT150 would be fine for skiing. However I would recommend against installing a ski pylon. A bridle running off the transom eyes is a MUCH better idea. A ski pylon is for the boat driver's convenience, and will help with rope management, but on a small boat it is less desirable for pulling a skier. As the photos from Jimmbo illustrate pretty well - A 4' tall tow pylon in the transom well or wherever it is mounted creates a high tow point and a big lever that makes it harder for the bow to stay down at hole shot. From the looks of the photo (skier is on two skis and it not a very big guy) the driver must not have the motor trimmed down correctly for take off. I had a 1982 GX-150 - a later version of a GT150 with different deck and a 90 hp. It pulled fine. With a really aggressive slalom skier (22 or 28' off, 34 mph skiing really high up on the boat) it was a handful to drive, but for 95% of skiers it will work great. And if your just starting out that is not how you will be skiing.

This might be too much info, but on another Glastron CVX-16 I installed transom wedges - a $25 shim plate between the back of the transom and the motor tracks that canted the entire engine back a few more degrees for more negative trim and even less bow rise when the motor was trimmed all the way down. I had both a pylon and transom bridle for that boat as well, and would pull from the transom whenever towing an adult slalom skier.
 

jimmbo

Supreme Mariner
Joined
May 24, 2004
Messages
12,944
The GT150, is sporty looking. Even tied to the Dock, it looks like it is doing 60mph. It does have a very good hull and is provides a surprisingly dry ride in reasonably smooth water. But as a small boat with a fairly deep vee, a tow pylon is a double edged sword. It does place the tow point in front of the engine, but as the tow point rises to clear the engine, it will increase a roll in the boat if the skier performs a very hard cut when very far out. Some tow pylons leave a lot to be desired when it comes to attachment as well. I have seen some pole attachments pulled right off of the floor. My little 15 1/2 use a pylon in with the rope had to clear a Merc inline 6 and it was a stable tow boat, at least when I was driving. When I was skiing I don't know how much I was yanking the boat around, the drivers said they certainly knew I was moving around back there
 
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