Diesel IOs?

[lilmandavis]

Re: Diesel IOs?

well i was just boasting about the "5" time thing but i have a pretty big boat. and thats interesting about the "diseasel" fuel catching on fire more. is it as explosive as gas at that state? i would think that it might be alot better than my 460 being that 6 gallons an hour went out the window at about 1000 rpms...lol. and if anyone is like me i use my boat about 100 hrs per week. well maybee two weeks but. in a single outing i may burn 200 gals in a weekend... i do totaly agree that in a small boat a nice light popper burnin da gas is wiser than a 1000 lb hog. yeah i worked for a land balancing company for several years and saved him thousands. turbo accumulators are the greatest. plus, couldnt you get the cheaper off road for boats. and yes the algae is "SO MUCH FUN". i learn alot about the technical stuff from you all i love to sit here and read the posts. im addicted!!! so from all the info im gathering a volvo outdrive is the better drive to handle a diesel. more so than a mercruiser? oh! ive only got a 30 ft boat

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Diesel IOs?

I have one of theose 340 HP 460's marinaized by chysler, I think it got 6 GPH tied up.<br /> its not that diesel is so flammible, however when ya have it on an overheated manifold it can ignite rapidly, its that folks have a mindset that diesel does not burn so they dont keep the engine clean.<br /> goes back to maint, I never see well maintained boats with overheat issues, the object is to fix it before ya need it.<br />my old 460 has not been started in almost 2 years, its going to the scrap yard soon, it is freshwater cooled.

 

[lilmandavis]

Re: Diesel IOs?

send me the freshwater cooler buddie!!!! <br />yes fix before destroyed.<br />if only everyone had that mindset......<br />yeah its crazy that none of those old detroit powered scrapers and machines never went up in flames???!!!

 

[ted655]

Re: Diesel IOs?

The houseboats we are looking at are 45' to 65' steel scow hull. We want to travel fairly far and long upon retirement. One trip would include up the moghty Miss. Not sure if this info changes the math or not, but I sure have learned more than I knew. Thanks.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Diesel IOs?

for that type of cruising your nuts to consider anything but inboard.<br /> volvo is about the best out there for sterndrives but even they have a 1500-2000 hour life span.<br />at the kind of loads your looking at pushing a haulout and gear oil change will be MANDATORY every 100 hours or geracase life will shorten dramatically.<br /> as your not going to go anywhere very fast with that rig buy the largest midsized slow turning cummings,cat or yanmar you can afford. use a 72 series or better clutch with inboard shafting.<br />if anyone wants the 460 and the 2/1 clutch all they have to do is show up with a trailer big enough for a flat bottom 26ft boat with a 2ft keel/<br /> in about 2 months ill light it on fire and bury the scraps.

 

[QC]

Re: Diesel IOs?

Yes, the economics change considerably if you increase the total fuel consumed. If you double it, the payback is cut in half etc. etc. Also, FWIW the 6 GPH I used at cruise was for less than 100 bhp actual load underway. Again, load drops substantially with a fixed load relative to speed i.e. a propeller . . . If you expect around 200 bhp at cruise (maybe a 400 bhp max rating) then that halves the payback period once again . . . <br /><br />You can get pretty close to all of this data, by searching around for test and spec-sheets. I would only trust data from reliable sources. I consider the major manufacturers reliable and major magazines/sites almost reliable (lots of stupid typos and mistakes in the data).

 

[ted655]

Re: Diesel IOs?

Houseboats are a paradox. They need an inboard and all the gear underneath, BUT... they need (ans are built for) shallow draft. I guess rhats why they get the IOs. So here we have this very comfortable "home" that moves but no propulsion that will stand up to sxtended use. Oh well.<br />Thanks for the heads up on IO life exspectency. Very valuable info for buying used boats.<br />As a matter of fact, I have a 25' jon sitting on a trailer that big. What is a 460, 2/1 ? what would I do with it, them?

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Diesel IOs?

its a 340 HP 460 ford marinized by chysler with a borg warner 72 series 2 to 1 ratio transmission.<br /> the 28ftr I took it out of loved fuel. we installed a 6V53 detroit in its place, along with a drip pan .<br /> in a single night of shrimping,including a 60 mile round trip run. it would burn just over 240 gallons.<br /> we got tired of shrimping with 55 gallon drums of gas on the deck.

 

[ted655]

Re: Diesel IOs?

That is a lot of $$$ at $3.00 gal.<br />If I can mine the gold here one more time... I have found a Hb with twin CAT 2cycle diesels. Not familiar with 2cycle diesels. Any comments? Thanks.

 

[DJ]

Re: Diesel IOs?

rodbolt,<br /><br />Your "drip pan" comment nearly made me spit coffee out my nose. <br /><br />Ted,<br /><br />I've never seen a 2-cycle CAT. Might want to look into that farther.<br /><br />If they truly are CATS they are probably 3208's. V-8 4-stroke diesels.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Diesel IOs?

DJ<br /> he called me about 2 months after we installed that 6V53 saying it had an oil leak. I told him if it aint dripping it aint running.<br />then he says well when I rev it the dipstick comes out the tube.<br /> so I told him to clean/replace the oil fill breather cap. he cleaned it and it went back to its normal drips .<br /> I dont do a lot of diesel work as the smell nauseates me. but like older harley davidson or volkswagon stuff the detroits just dripped.<br /> same as the Tow Boat US captain here, he bought an old USCG utility boat with a pair of 653 detroits, they were painted such a pretty white and the bilge all freshly painted gray.<br /> 2 weeks after he took delivery of it he was calling me about oil leaks. I told him about drip trays and oil pads.<br /> I dont know why but they just seem to ooze oil.

 

[ted655]

Re: Diesel IOs?

Here is part of the ad...<br />"excellent (bristol)condition". Powered by 2<br />Caterpillar V-8 diesel 2 cycle, naturally<br />aspirated engines. Only 485 hours on<br />engines.

 

[QC]

Re: Diesel IOs?

ted,<br /><br />I guarantee they are 4 strokes, 3208's and I know each other well . . . DJ is correct, no 2 cycle Cats . . . If you see a 2 cycle diesel in the US, 999 times out of 1000 they are Detroits.<br /><br />NA (naturally aspirated) 3208s are rated at 210 bhp. Decent engine, but they have cast in cylinders like a gasoline engine. Makes them less desirable for commercial applications, but lighter. They are 636 cubic inches, run at 2800 RPM full load. Like all marine engines, they often need heat exchanger, exhaust manifold and raw water pump attention . . .<br /><br />The weakest link is the fuel injection pump. Worst design they ever made. Fuel lubricated . . . ANY water in the fuel and they need a new or rebuilt pump. Probably around $1500 each.

 

[ted655]

Re: Diesel IOs?

Thanks Guys! Turns out that wasn't the only misprint. The price was wacky too. The search continues, BUT... Look at what I've learned. I have a better idea now.

 

[whywhyzed]

Re: Diesel IOs?

Originally posted by QC:<br /><br />The weakest link is the fuel injection pump. Worst design they ever made. Fuel lubricated . . . ANY water in the fuel and they need a new or rebuilt pump. Probably around $1500 each.

Good ol' Sleeve Metering fuel system.... The water can rust the sleeves to the plungers and hold the racks WFO, causing the engine to run away and grenade.<br />I'll never forget the phone call I got once from an Italian gentleman with a Cat 229 excavator.... "My Engine....she a go a all a crrraaaaazzzeeeeeeee"

 

[ted655]

Re: Diesel IOs?

Why are you diesel guys hanging out in IOs? I figured this place for ski enthusists. But I'm glad I found you. Thanks.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Diesel IOs?

I am no diesel guy, I hate them. ugly nasty smelly beasts with cylinder heads that out weigh me.<br />however I do get suckered into working on them with a cat tech buddy.<br /> he is a nut, his customers are nuttier. a year or so ago we replaced the manifolds and elbows on a 3208, parts were about 2500 from cat.<br /> made an 8.1 merc or volvo price look tame.<br /> but when I helping heave them beasts I figgured out why he wanted an assist.<br /> I think the manifolds and elbows were about the same weight as a merc 3.0 package .<br />all I could think of was why would someone spend all this cash and saltwater cool it?<br /> made absolutly no sense but the gas guys do it as well.

 

[QC]

Re: Diesel IOs?

ted,<br /><br />I have always said "I know too much about diesels to own one . . ." <br />Plus, diesels are the realm of the "super rich white honky", we're mostly just "rich white honkies" around here . . .<br /><br />Hystat,<br /><br />I once watched a 14 liter truck engine run away. One of our guys had just put the governor back together and started it without a block-off plate I'll never forget it, after trying a number of quick fixes, he hopped in the cab, threw it in gear and dumped the clutch. Imagine hearing this normally 2100 RPM engine singing along at over 3000 and hearing a barely noticeable dip and then it just kept on going. Smoked that 15 inch double disc clutch in a nano-second. Finally spun the mains and welded herself to a stop; what a sound that was Pieces of clutch were dripping out of this thing for over an hour. Pretty amazing.

 

[whywhyzed]

Re: Diesel IOs?

8V92<br />3406<br />D330<br />3116<br /><br />engines I've seen run away....<br /><br />The 3116MUI was the best- started with governor pin out - valve cover off....valves started floating when it got to around 5000 rpm I'd say...<br />Buddy came out of hiding with visegrips and grabbed the fuel rack and shut it off.<br />some bent pushrods, and 1 con rod... that's it - had it running the next day...

 

[tommays]

Re: Diesel IOs?

I use to run a Grove Crane it had a manual cable to pull if it ran away only needed it once BUT glad it worked<br /><br /><br />tommays