Dealing with car dealers... yuk

[BF]

So I'm in the process of trying to buy a new car, van actually. Probably gonna pull the trigger on a new 2012 Grand Caravan. Several dealerships are running ads locally for bare bones ones for "$17,998" or so and ones with more stuff including DVD player for "$25,798". I want a trim level in between the two since the kids don't use the DVD player we have in our current van anymore. So, I figure I should be able to buy a van for in between those 2 numbers somewhere, and that because they're advertising those deals, it I figure it should be relatively easy to get to the "real" number. After spending Sat PM in a dealership, it's clear to me that it's not that easy to buy a car. They wouldn't asses value on my potential trade unless there was an offer sheet and $1000 deposit. Rather than start at a reasonable number, they start with MSRP (?) minus incentives ($7K), so their starting position is something like $10,000 higher than what's in their ads. Funny position to take I think. In the end, we were $500 apart, and I left. It was hard to get out the door b/c I needed the deposit credited back to my mastercard. Monday I got a call from sales guy and after it was clear he wasn't calling to tell me they wanted to take my offer, I upped it $250. I get call back (2 days later) saying good news, we're only $250 apart now.

Instead of responding to that, I'm going to see the sales manager of a rival dealership tomorrow. I realize my current van's not worth much, so maybe I'd be better off doing a strictly cash deal and sell it after for whatever I can get. But, with wholesale being 2 to 3.5K, I thought I should (?) be able to get 2K worth of value on trade and save me having to deal with it... but maybe I'm just paying that $2K on the other end. (?)

Anyway, it's been a while since I've bought at a dealership, and it strikes me that unless you're happy to pay what they tell you to pay, it's not a fun experience. Makes me wonder what profit margins they normally make. My guess is that even though most folks like to think they got the best deal they could, many probably pay way over what would've actually bought the vehicle (?).

That's what I said to my wife, well at least I'm pretty sure what the number is now! We'll see if I can turn that number into a new vehicle at the other dealership. Since I didn't enjoy the gamesmanship of the first place, I'm not in a hurry to buy from them.

This car business is a funny thing. There is no "price"... just what you're willing to pay. The next person might pay more, or could negotiate a better deal. Doesn't look like a fun job on their side either. Trying to justify (with a straight face) the $169 fee for having air (oops I mean nitrogen) in the tires. Or the $399 fee to "process" the sale after you agree on price.

Blaaa. New vehicles are nice, buying them isn't. Or maybe if price didn't matter to me, I'd enjoy it (?).

Rant off

 

[colbyt]

Re: Dealing with car dealers... yuk

Just make sure you get an on the road price or they will d*** you for up to $400 in document fees. You never see that one coming and the max amount varies by dealer and state law.

 

[oldjeep]

Re: Dealing with car dealers... yuk

My .02 - if you have a bunch of dealers for that same brand locally then the internet sales guy is your friend. When I bought my truck I decided what I wanted and then just fired off a few emails. Got responses with quotes from 5-6 different dealers and took the one that was less than I was planning to pay. Total time spent at dealerships - 30 minutes to sign the papers and drive off with the truck.

 

[matt167]

Re: Dealing with car dealers... yuk

Tell them to forget the 4 square 'offer' sheet. Those things are how they get their profits. As far as a $1k mandated deposit on your credit card, that is ludicrous.

 

[FLATHEAD]

Re: Dealing with car dealers... yuk

I would have walked out if they asked for a deposit before they would deal. We get a new car every few years it seems. Like the above poster said the Internet is your friend, use it. I do the research find the minimal price and go to a dealer and cut right to the chase. Have the numbers in hand. They will deal.

 

[WIMUSKY]

Re: Dealing with car dealers... yuk

They wouldn't asses value on my potential trade unless there was an offer sheet and $1000 deposit.

As soon as that was mentioned, I would have been out the door. They did it to make sure you're serious about buying and by giving a deposit and a completed offer sheet there is less of a chance you'll leave w/o a new car. Personally, I've never run into that issue. And, we buy a new vehicle every 3/4 years.

For us, when we've decided to buy we give our business to the first dealership willing to deal that day. Or, we move on... If a dealership messes with us, they just lost a sale.....

As others, do your research on the net before you show up at a stealership......

Buying a new vehicle isn't that bad if your prepared. And don't let them jerk you around. Yes, it can be a big game, but, not always if you find the right dealer............

 

[glenn property of pam]

Re: Dealing with car dealers... yuk

deposit... yep that isnt happening. i have had 5 new cars in the last 11 years and 3 more for the wife and i have never even heard of a deposit before a quote. the first quote is always a joke as it sets the playing field of what they think you will pay against what you are willing to pay.
over the years i have had 4 vehicles im trading in mis-quoted it seems like a trick they like to play. so im real big on checking the numbers not just the end price. when i went to trade in my f150 they quoted it as a v6 manual instead of v8 auto so the trade in valve was about 3k to low. the salesman accepted that it was a auto but refused to accept that it was a v8 even after i opened the hood and pointed out the 8 plugs (told me i didnt know what i was looking at) needless to say it got a little heated when they argued that i couldnt have my keys back to the truck as they wanted to test drive it even after i explained that i wasnt buying a car there no matter what the price. all the way home my wife was taking the mickey about how a man finds it so offensive to have his v8 called a v6 and awww you dont know what you are looking at.

 

[ajgraz]

Re: Dealing with car dealers... yuk

So-called "sales," advertised prices, etc. don't mean a thing to me. Once I've found the car I want, I've always just told them what I'm willing to pay out-the-door. If they start playing games with numbers, trying to tack on fees, etc. I get up to walk. Last time I got up to walk because "Skinny" the "finance guy" came back with $20 over what I said I'd pay after "running some numbers" for 15 minutes (they did budge on that one, ha ha! Salesman almost had a heart attack.)

And as for trade-in, you do know you never talk about that first, right? Save that for last (or better yet private-sell).

 

[Bamaman1]

Re: Dealing with car dealers... yuk

I'm a retired dealership financial analyst from one of the major auto manufacturers. I've seen all their tricks. It sounds as if you've tried to buy from a "slam and jamb" dealership. Don't let'em treat you this way.

The internet is the best thing that's ever happened to the retail auto market. You can easily find the actual dealer cost of virtually any car/truck on the market. You can also lookup the manufacturer sales incentives and low interest car loans in your retail market. But the best thing is that you can let the dealers compete for your business with fair prices--comparing apples and apples.

It's not hard to figure out who the "players" are in your market by comparing newspaper advertisements on weekends. These are usually the best buys on the dealers' lots. Beware that virtually every dealer's going to get you for a "documentation fee" of between $400 to $700, which is straight profit in their pocket. You must consider this in your negotiations.

I recently bought a new Honda Civic SI pocketrocket. Every dealer but one wanted list price & $499 doc fees, or a $2200 profit. I found that excessive. The one dealer wanted list price including doc fees, or a $1700 excessive profit. After hitting every dealership within 300 miles over the internet, my daughter negotiated a sale @ $138 under cost for a car with 150 miles and we grabbed it.

Just back off. Let your fingers do the walking on the internet. Be cordial and honest when they call you on the phone. Eventually you'll find the deal you want.

And by the way, the car business is not nearly as good as the newspapers say. It still sucks. Let competition work to your advantage. Sometimes driving 100 miles will save you $1000.

 

[JimS123]

Re: Dealing with car dealers... yuk

First of all, I want what I want. That means I won't EVER take a car off the lot. I don't want to pay extra for options I don't want, and I don't want to do without those I DO want. So, I simply plan on an order car.

What I do is look up the model and options online and spec out the car. Then, I go on Edmunds.com to find out what they consider the "true market value". Then I go on NADA to find out what my trade is worth. Finally, check on Craiglist to verify the trade value.

Then, I go to my dealer of choice (the one closest to the house, or been dealing with them for years). I hand over a printed spec sheet and a printed trade in sheet and say I'll pay XXX and slap down a new $100 bill. (I always underbid by $500 so I got wiggle room). They always take it to the "boss" and come back with a counteroffer. I counteroffer them....repeat...repeat.

The last 4 cars I bought were settled on the first trip, and the most I ever paid was 50 bucks over what I planned on.

As luck would have it, in 2011 the car I wanted with the exact options and color was on the lot and it had only been there 2 days and had never been test driven. We were right on the mark with price, but they wanted to charge me a $300 fee for reconditioning the trade-in. Funny thing was I had changed the oil and detailed the car just that day, so I had them drive the car in the service bay and bring the used and new car managers out to take a second look. I pulled the dipstick, wiped my handkerchief across the hood of the c ar and opened the trunk. It literally looked like it was ready to be delivered. They took off the extra charge, took my $100 and I picked up the new car the next day.

 

[bigdee]

Re: Dealing with car dealers... yuk

And as for trade-in, you do know you never talk about that first, right? Save that for last (or better yet private-sell).

A+++ I never trade because a trade-in is considered as overhead and the value gets lost in the paperwork. Do yourself and a private buyer a favor by selling at or below wholesale and use that money as a downpayment. You will be way ahead of the game. 2nd tip is arrange your own financing don't ever let a dealer handle the finance.

 

[dwco5051]

Re: Dealing with car dealers... yuk

My .02 - if you have a bunch of dealers for that same brand locally then the internet sales guy is your friend. When I bought my truck I decided what I wanted and then just fired off a few emails. Got responses with quotes from 5-6 different dealers and took the one that was less than I was planning to pay. Total time spent at dealerships - 30 minutes to sign the papers and drive off with the truck.

Bought my last new truck that way. Made up a spec sheet on what options I wanted and sent it to dealers of the brand I wanted all over the state. Low bid was from 140 miles away and they delivered the truck to me. Almost $5000 less than the local dealer offered. It was a cash deal without a trade in and financing. I have only once ever traded in a car or truck with the exception of my wife's Porsche and that was because the dealer I went to is a sportscar nut and racer and had been after us for a couple of years for that model and offered full tilt on the trade-in price without playing games with the final cost..

se

 

[rivermouse]

Re: Dealing with car dealers... yuk

I was told that all a person had to do was to call up a dealer and they would tell you the exact model and amount to make out the check for before you arrive..Do they do this?

 

[DECK SWABBER 58]

Re: Dealing with car dealers... yuk

They wouldn't asses value on my potential trade unless there was an offer sheet and $1000 deposit.

That is a crooked dealer. The offer sheet comes after they assess the trade-in. :facepalm:

Don't buy there. My gosh, I sure hope you got your deposit back.

Disclaimer: I'm a used car dealer, most of my inventory comes from new car dealer trades, I've been sitting in sales offices for years listening like a fly on the wall, some day I'm going to write a book.

 

[kenmyfam]

Re: Dealing with car dealers... yuk

We have bought new and also up to 1 year old. Generally a half price car with the full warranty balance remaining that way.
We find the car we want and then I give the dealer 1 shot at giving me the actual price to drive it away. Leave them to discuss that while we are test driving usually. Tell them beforehand that I will NOT attempt to haggle back Either I will shake his or her hand or I will thank them for their time and leave. Takes all the haggling out then they can not add the "frills and extras" afterwards. Having said that I have walked away from many dealerships after they have told me 1 price then started to add things when we went to write the deal up. There are 2 relatively local ones that give me their price and stand by it. They are currently getting the business.

 

[JB]

Re: Dealing with car dealers... yuk

My last purchase was the most successful ever. Here is how I did it.

I spent a couple of hours on the net determining exactly what my trade was worth. . .trade, private sale or wholesale. I locked that number in.

I spent a couple more hours selecting exactly the (pre-owned) car I wanted and determining exactly what it was worth, private or dealer sale.

The car I wanted was priced $380 over the market. I locked that in

I decided I would allow the dealer $500 profit.

I researched all of those fees that usually ambush buyers and locked that in.

I then calculated How much cash to offer along with my trade, including all the fees, etc. to give the dealer the market price for his car plus profit and fees. I locked that in and decided not to budge from it. I decided that I didn't want the car enough to pay one cent more.

I drove the car and told the salesman I wanted it. I then asked for a deal. He asked for an offer. I said no.

He came back with a contract for a couple grand more than I intended to pay. It did not include all the fees.

I then replied. This many bux and my car for the car, including all fees. Final offer, not negotiable. He did the trip to the Sales Manager thing, twice, each time offering movement. I said no.

They sold me the car for my offer.

The key was all the homework I did beforehand. I went in knowing more than the Salesman about my trade and his car. If I needed financing I would have arranged that with the bank of my choice, beforehand.

 

[rogerwa]

Re: Dealing with car dealers... yuk

+1 on the Internet sales thing.. You can then compare in your slippers the offer with what the actual car retail and wholesale is and decide if they are trying to jack you., the comparison with other offers also tells you who is serious.

I walk I with the price I will pay from the e-mails and bring my own financing, then they give me a price o the trade in. I always have a price that I will accept. If they don't offer it, I will tell I may be back to buy the car once I sell what I would have traded in. That will usually nudge them that extra. If not then I will go sell my car, and it starts all over.

Having the details about the pricing and being able to separate the different variables in the deal is required. They will try to muddy it for their gain. But before I go in I know the sale price of the car, my down pmt, my rate and monthly payment, what I will take for trade in, and I also bring a calc so I can recalc based on the numbers they write down. Just to make sure.

I think there are a lot of people out there who just walk in and get sold on a pmt amount. Getting jacked is what I call it, but I suppose ignorance is bliss..

 

[generator12]

Re: Dealing with car dealers... yuk

That is a crooked dealer. The offer sheet comes after they assess the trade-in. :facepalm:

Don't buy there. My gosh, I sure hope you got your deposit back.

Disclaimer: I'm a used car dealer, most of my inventory comes from new car dealer trades, I've been sitting in sales offices for years listening like a fly on the wall, some day I'm going to write a book.

I wish SOMEBODY would. There isn't another industry in this country more deserving of regulation than auto sales, in my opinion. Yet the media consistently ignore it because of the advertising revenue they enjoy.

"Channel five is on your side" when the problem is a balky landlord or a leaky roof, but NEVER with someone who places advertisements with them. And there won't be any state or local government intervention until the media makes a big deal out of it.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Dealing with car dealers... yuk

First of all, its just dumb to buy a new car. Second, do everything over the internet and don't bother bringing up the trade in until you are done with the deal on the car you want.

If you do go into the dealer and they start playing the manager game, get the manger to be in the office for the negotiating or walk out of the dealership.

 

[tpenfield]

Re: Dealing with car dealers... yuk

You want to buy a new car too much and the dealer probably sensed that. The $1,000 was a test of your 'will', that they gave you. If you had walked out then, things might have been different.

If you can wait until the winter (January/February) then the dealers will be all over you. I bought a car during the winter and did most of it over the phone, bidding one dealer against the other. Got a much better price than I imagined.

Buying a car can make for some good 'war stories', but you have to be more like a rock and less like pizza dough. (sorry)