Crazy Idea for jet powered boat

IDoSeaDoo

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Joined
Dec 18, 2013
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15
Hey boaters! I have an unorthodox idea for my 1997 SeaDoo Challenger. I absolutely love this little boat. The jet drive makes it worlds funner than any other boat I've ever driven, and much less prone to damage on our shallow lake. It's equipped with a 787cc 2-stroke 110hp (81fl-lb) engine which works pretty well when it wants to, if you consider burning $80/day on a small 4-seater boat that goes less than 50mph good. Did I mention that it's problematic? Maybe I forgot, it's hard to keep your bearings with a motor this loud. I had to get an 800W amp just to outyell the engine at cruising speed. Oh and it's problematic! It's damn near impossible to get the carbs tuned right, and the power valves keep melting the plastic plunger (that's right, exhaust valves have plastic components!), and it rattles and misfires and hard starts. ANYWAY, this is the wrong motor for this boat!

I recently inherited the ugliest Dodge Neon this side of the Mason Dixon line. The car is in all sorts of disrepair, but the motor starts right up and purrs like a kitten. This little gas sipper has been through hell and back and still performs like a champ. This car is worth only what the scrap yard will give me, so it pains me to see a good engine go like this. I did some crude measurements and believe it could fit in my bilge and replace that tired old jet ski motor. It would probably add 150lbs, but the 130hp and 130ft-lb should add lots of new life to this fantastic boat. (Not to mention quiet things down and up my fuel economy/reliability).

Here are my main concerns, and I hope to hear some thoughts on this:

-Can I get away just wrapping the exhaust system in header-wrap and have it in the same area as a plastic fuel tank?
-I plan on bolting on a sprocket to the crank and adding one to the driveshaft. Would a motorcycle chain hold up with such constant stress/moisture? What about Lubrication?
-How can I mount a fuel injection pump into a plastic tank that has no hole for such a device? Right now it only has a 2" hole for a baffle that houses the level indicator float and pickup tubes?
-Intrinsically safe devices: I don' think they make intrinsically safe devices for neons. Anyone know if a seadoo starter is intrinsically save? Currently it bolts into an air tight magneto housing (which once filled up with fuel and didn't explode) I guess I'll just use an alternator from a boat...

I plan to use the stock 140mm pump, which Seadoo abandoned for the 155mm when they went to the 130hp 951 motors. My boat goes almost 50 with just me in it with the stock prop spinning 6800. I want to see if I can spin it at 8k with this new motor and see how the performance goes. I may upgrade the pump later on if the 140 doesn't do it.

I know some of you will think this is a waste of time and economically unsound, but if this boat had the right engine, it would be perfect for me. I don't like any of the new 4tec boats seadoo has and have grown quite attached to this one. I can't wait to get started!! Has anyone ever heard of something like this? Any constructive suggestions?
 

Bondo

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Staff member
Joined
Apr 17, 2002
Messages
70,527
Re: Crazy Idea for jet powered boat

Hey boaters! I have an unorthodox idea for my 1997 SeaDoo Challenger. I absolutely love this little boat. The jet drive makes it worlds funner than any other boat I've ever driven, and much less prone to damage on our shallow lake. It's equipped with a 787cc 2-stroke 110hp (81fl-lb) engine which works pretty well when it wants to, if you consider burning $80/day on a small 4-seater boat that goes less than 50mph good. Did I mention that it's problematic? Maybe I forgot, it's hard to keep your bearings with a motor this loud. I had to get an 800W amp just to outyell the engine at cruising speed. Oh and it's problematic! It's damn near impossible to get the carbs tuned right, and the power valves keep melting the plastic plunger (that's right, exhaust valves have plastic components!), and it rattles and misfires and hard starts. ANYWAY, this is the wrong motor for this boat!

I recently inherited the ugliest Dodge Neon this side of the Mason Dixon line. The car is in all sorts of disrepair, but the motor starts right up and purrs like a kitten. This little gas sipper has been through hell and back and still performs like a champ. This car is worth only what the scrap yard will give me, so it pains me to see a good engine go like this. I did some crude measurements and believe it could fit in my bilge and replace that tired old jet ski motor. It would probably add 150lbs, but the 130hp and 130ft-lb should add lots of new life to this fantastic boat. (Not to mention quiet things down and up my fuel economy/reliability).

Here are my main concerns, and I hope to hear some thoughts on this:

-Can I get away just wrapping the exhaust system in header-wrap and have it in the same area as a plastic fuel tank?
-I plan on bolting on a sprocket to the crank and adding one to the driveshaft. Would a motorcycle chain hold up with such constant stress/moisture? What about Lubrication?
-How can I mount a fuel injection pump into a plastic tank that has no hole for such a device? Right now it only has a 2" hole for a baffle that houses the level indicator float and pickup tubes?
-Intrinsically safe devices: I don' think they make intrinsically safe devices for neons. Anyone know if a seadoo starter is intrinsically save? Currently it bolts into an air tight magneto housing (which once filled up with fuel and didn't explode) I guess I'll just use an alternator from a boat...

I plan to use the stock 140mm pump, which Seadoo abandoned for the 155mm when they went to the 130hp 951 motors. My boat goes almost 50 with just me in it with the stock prop spinning 6800. I want to see if I can spin it at 8k with this new motor and see how the performance goes. I may upgrade the pump later on if the 140 doesn't do it.

I know some of you will think this is a waste of time and economically unsound, but if this boat had the right engine, it would be perfect for me. I don't like any of the new 4tec boats seadoo has and have grown quite attached to this one. I can't wait to get started!! Has anyone ever heard of something like this? Any constructive suggestions?

Ayuh,.... Welcome Aboard,.... For many reasons, yer plan will Not work,....

1st off is the fact that you Must have water cooled exhaust in an enclosed motorbox, No ifs, an's or buts,....

The automotive Efi is Not marine rated, 'n won't work,...
The fuel pump mountin' is only the 1st insurmountable hurtle,...
 

jc55

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Nov 3, 2006
Messages
665
Re: Crazy Idea for jet powered boat

My experience with putting things where they were never designed to be is this...it always costs 10x more than a stock rebuild or upgrade. An oily, beater, neon motor, with a chain drive (yikes!) will reduce the value of your boat to zero IMO.

You have all kinds of logistical nightmares like, a computer and an extensive wiring harness to deal/sort through. I've done this...it is NOT fun or pretty. You have to have an electric fuel pump, regulator, return line and a place to put a fuel pressure gauge $$$, Adequate cooling???, mounts, O2 sensor feedback loop, etc.

With the HUGE neon aftermarket, the sky is the limit. Rebuilt performance engine with a turbo kit and shaft drive? ;)
If you've done outrageous projects in the past and have experience to draw from...maybe. If not, then run!
 

IDoSeaDoo

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Joined
Dec 18, 2013
Messages
15
Re: Crazy Idea for jet powered boat

Ayuh,.... Welcome Aboard,.... For many reasons, yer plan will Not work,....

1st off is the fact that you Must have water cooled exhaust in an enclosed motorbox, No ifs, an's or buts,....

The automotive Efi is Not marine rated, 'n won't work,...
The fuel pump mountin' is only the 1st insurmountable hurtle,...

I'm not scared to build a watercooled exhaust system, I was just wondering if the header-wrapped one might work. As for the EFI not rated for Marine use, please explain... Why would I need a fuel pressure regulator gauge?

As for the budle of wire, I think the bundle can be managed if carefully laid out in a garage. I believe the engine will run okay without the O2 feedback loop... right?

My other alternative would be to find a wrecked 4tec seadoo and use it's motor. That would be a better alternative, but it would cost AT LEAST $2k. I already have this car and all the stuff to make the engine work. I'm not afraid to weld or do fiberglass-work.
 

IDoSeaDoo

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Dec 18, 2013
Messages
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Re: Crazy Idea for jet powered boat

As for cooling, I plan to equip it with a heat exchanger instead of raw-water cooling.
 

Brian 26

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Aug 14, 2013
Messages
574
Re: Crazy Idea for jet powered boat

In addition to the hurdles that have already been mentioned I would also add that the driveshafts on these boats needs to be balanced perfectly or they will self destruct. I can't see a sprocket and chain drive working but I am admittedly not a creative person.

Also the computers (MPEMs) are VERY fragile and VERY expensive.

On a good note, the seadoo 787 motor is regarded as the best 2 stroke motor seadoo ever made, the "X4" ski with that motor has a cult following (I own two and have owned a few others). You should be able to work out the bugs in yours, seadooforum is a great place, I would post there asking why you keep burning up powervalves. There's guys on there that know every nut and bolt of your boat and are happy to help. A guy that goes by Minnetonka4me on there knows everything and has every part for sale.

PWCtoday.com is a forum that has a whole section on jet boat builds, I'd also look there.

Another option is sell your boat and buy one with the twin 787 engines. I had one with the twin 720s and it was a blast to drive, like a roller coaster.
 
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Brian 26

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Messages
574
Re: Crazy Idea for jet powered boat

My other alternative would be to find a wrecked 4tec seadoo and use it's motor. That would be a better alternative, but it would cost AT LEAST $2k.

That's how most jet boat builds I've read about go. Cut the bottom of the donor ski off and graft it to the boat top you want. That way you're engine mounts and jet pump are ready to go. However I've only read about this stuff, never tried it.
 

IDoSeaDoo

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Messages
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Re: Crazy Idea for jet powered boat

Hey Brian,
I'm very familiar with Seadooforum and the 787. On the forum, everyone just says to replace the all the powervalve components, which I have done only to watch them melt down after a month. At $200 a rebuild, I can't afford to keep doing this. I have two X4's and think they are the Bee's knees. The trouble with the 787 is worth it for them. However, this motor is NOT powerful enough for this boat. Adding a second one would surely put a grin on my face, up until I run out of fuel 10min after launching. These engines are like pouring gas out of a garden hose. Absolutely ridiculous! They're worth it on the X4, as it's the most fun ski I've ever sat on, but not on this boat. The newer small boats I'm just not attracted to, and they're too heavy for me to tow. I have a very small tow vehicle.

As for the driveshaft, I have a seadoo alignment tool and would install a carrier bearing to fit the other end of the driveshaft into. I would align it perfectly with the pump using my tool. This has been done before on a Mazda rotary conversion for a big seadoo ski. I don't want to go that route because, like the 2-strokes, the mazda's are also hugely fuel inefficient. Fuel economy is one of my main goals in this project.

I know it won't be easy, but I think it'll be fun :)
 

Woodonglass

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Re: Crazy Idea for jet powered boat

The first two words of this thread says it all!!!
 

IDoSeaDoo

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Re: Crazy Idea for jet powered boat

That's how most jet boat builds I've read about go. Cut the bottom of the donor ski off and graft it to the boat top you want. That way you're engine mounts and jet pump are ready to go. However I've only read about this stuff, never tried it.

Where did you read about it? I've never found any material on this matter
 

IDoSeaDoo

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Re: Crazy Idea for jet powered boat

If I run without the o2 sensors, will the ECM use a default value or will it just run overly rich or lean?
 

Bondo

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Re: Crazy Idea for jet powered boat

This has been done before on a Mazda rotary conversion for a big seadoo ski. I don't want to go that route because, like the 2-strokes, the mazda's are also hugely fuel inefficient. Fuel economy is one of my main goals in this project.

I know it won't be easy, but I think it'll be fun :)

Ayuh,.... Yer lookin' in the Wrong place for fuel efficiency,....

Jet pumps are by their very nature are Terribly Inefficient,...

Fixin' yer motor, then tunin' yer hull bottom, 'n pump will find yer Efficiency,....

Same reasons the ole V8 Jets died in the '70s,...
 

Brian 26

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Re: Crazy Idea for jet powered boat

Where did you read about it? I've never found any material on this matter

PWC Today build section there are a ton of custom one off builds on here, a lot of the threads are people "just" putting bigger ski motors in existing skis but there are some boat builds. Unfortunately there are a lot of posts of kids ripping on people that you have to wade through.

Also there have been a few guys that did it to Jon boats and took photos along the way, google search should turn up those.
 
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IDoSeaDoo

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Re: Crazy Idea for jet powered boat

Yea... I don't think I could make this motor work without those sensors being there :/ my bubble just burst. The project was complex to say the least, but the one thing I don't know how to do is to change the way the computer works. My bubble just burst :( Looks like I'll be looking for a wrecked donor ski. It's amazing how much people want for a ski with a giant hole in the bottom... Maybe I'll sell this pos car and use it to put a small downpayment on a wrecked 4tec. I guess the upside of that is, the overall cost of this project would probably come close to if not surpass the cost of a broken 4tec.

Thanks for the replies guys, I'll take a look at that section Brian. Maybe it'll give me some pointers. And if any of you want to sell me your ugly, beat-up 4-stroke jet ski, I'm in the market ;)
 

Woodonglass

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Re: Crazy Idea for jet powered boat

Hmmm!!!!

th
 

IDoSeaDoo

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Re: Crazy Idea for jet powered boat

Nice, fortunately for that guy, he's not in a Dodge Neon. I can't even keep the rain out of the cab lol. I stabbed holes in the rear floorboards to keep water from standing there. Maybe I should turn this junker into a coral reef :D
underwater.jpg
 

Brian 26

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Re: Crazy Idea for jet powered boat

That's really weird that you're burning up power valves. I agree you have to do something about it so why not an engine swap. You can sell that running 787 motor for a pretty penny too. I think the 4tec is the way to go, it will hold some resale value too.

I have a 2007 Seadoo GTI 155 I will be selling but it's in mint condition and if you took a sawzall to it everyone on here would fit you for a strait jacket. HA!

I'd put want ads on those jet ski forums looking for a wrecked 4tec, also comb those insurance repo websites. Crashedtoyz, cranky ape etc...

Good luck and keep us posted (with pics)
 

IDoSeaDoo

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Re: Crazy Idea for jet powered boat

I've been eyeing those repo sites. Sadly, it's really hard to get any info on these units. "Damage Type: All over" Like.... what does that entail? Does it run? Does it try to even start? Also, I've seen some doo's on there with smashed in hulls. How much should I expect to pick one up for with such damage?
 

73Chrysler105

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Re: Crazy Idea for jet powered boat

I don't think the neon motor would have enough torque but tuned right it just might work. I don't know the layout of the Seadoo engines and pumps but most Jets have the motor directly connected to the driveshaft via a coupling at the flywheel and the driveshaft directly to the jet pump. A chain drive wont work or handle the torque without some major worries of reliability. I have had a worn chain come off my bike at just 30mph and lock up the rear wheel. That chain will be moving extremely fast and if ti comes loose will put a large hole in the boat very quickly. I would find a way to mount the motor so the driveshaft mounts to the flywheel and directly drives the jet even if you have to custom make a shorter driveshaft. Regardiung the O2 sensors if you are custom making a water jacketed exhaust then make an area for the O2 sensor so that you can use it. You might be able to use another Chrysler marine starter I can not remember if the starter on the neon was unique to it or the standard mopar design/mounting flange. Using the closed cooling system would be good then you just need to mount raw water pump to cool the coolant through a heat exchanger. You can make any marine alternator work. The ignition is distributor less so as long as you have good wires that should not be a problem. Just realize that it would not be CG approved and it is possible you could get cited for not having CG approved equipment. It's not likely unless your drawing attention to yourself but it is possible. All in all I say go for it as long as you don't make any non-reversible changes you dont hurt anything and just waste some time for an experiment. The world was built on experiments.

And that remark that jet boats died out in the 70's is a false statement I am part of a Texas group where jet boats are quite strong. Are they inefficient yes but they have developed and are better than they were. There are races where Jetboats are raced so died out in the 70's don't think so. There are ineffiencies with any boat propulsion system, props have prop slip, jets have basically the same thing just their prop is internal and not external where it can catch on rocks, limbs (both tree and human) among other things.
 
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