Corn ,ethanol and gasoline.

[rolmops]

I heard some very interesting tidbits of news on NPR about the amount of gasoline it takes to produce a gallon of ethanol.<br />Every bushel(56 pounds) of corn that is grown in this country uses about 0.33 gallons of gasoline in the form of fertilizer.The amount of energy it takes in order to distill one gallon of ethanol(corn alcohol)is between 0.9 and 1 gallon of gasoline.<br />In other words,by adding ethanol to gasoline we do nothing to make America less dependent on foreign oil.We just subsidize the farmers.<br />If you have any more info about this,please post it,I need to learn more about this.

 

[tommays]

Re: Corn ,ethanol and gasoline.

The real question is how many gallons of fuel does it take to ship it hafe way around the world /distill into gas/then drive it to the station <br /><br /><br />compared to CORN<br /><br />I dont think it works in corns favor to well but will have to see some facts<br /><br />It seems to have worked out in SA but we lack the will at this point<br /><br /><br />tommays

 

[bootle]

Re: Corn ,ethanol and gasoline.

Funny thing that you mention this subject, i was reading a govt' agricultural report on subsidies to soya bean farmers, there was a chart showing various commodities and corn was was one of them, i was amazed (no pun intended) at how much a bushel of corn sells for, it was something stupid like $1.45, i cannot remember the exact dollar amount but it costs the farmer a significantly more amount of dollars to produce that bushel of corn.<br />Because of these types of govt' subsidies the third world farmers are being decimated. <br />one only needs to look at the predicament that this has placed on Mexican farmers.

 

[RubberFrog]

Re: Corn ,ethanol and gasoline.

Originally posted by Darth D Invader:<br />Because of these types of govt' subsidies the third world farmers are being decimated. <br />one only needs to look at the predicament that this has placed on Mexican farmers.

Is that why they're all over here picking our corn?

 

[QC]

Re: Corn ,ethanol and gasoline.

rolmops is correct on what is called a well-to-wheels analysis of energy. Ultimately the cost of any fuel in economic, emissions and energy is what it costs to dig it up (grow it or mine it), play with it (refine it), transport it (ship, rail, pipeline, wires and/or truck), store it (real estate aint free), pump it (energy for pumps, compressors etc.) and actually burn it (different engine technologies). Without subsidies that combination is the real picture . . .

 

[bootle]

Re: Corn ,ethanol and gasoline.

Positive proof that NAFTA benefits mostly our multinational farmers (eg: Monsanto, Archer Daniels Midland, ect ect...) and the super wealthy of Canada and Mexico.<br />I have to admit that Ross Perot, Dic* Gephart and Pat Buchanan were right on the money in their predictions to where NAFTA will lead.<br />Our hemispherical trading neighbors are becoming extermely disenchanted with Globalisation, this is one of the main reasons for the big tilt in electing of unfriendly socialist governments in Latin America.

 

[brine]

Re: Corn ,ethanol and gasoline.

Unfortunately corn is seen as the BIG ethanol plant when it is really quite in-efficient. I have heard that Yams or Sweet Potatoes are a way better source and easy on the soil, as corn is not!

 

[brine]

Re: Corn ,ethanol and gasoline.

Sugar beets too!!

 

[JB]

Re: Corn ,ethanol and gasoline.

Corn is not fertilized with gasoline. Only rarely is it fertilized with petroleum products. Ammonium Nitrate is mined. "Organic waste" is recycled plant products.<br /><br />Ethanol is not distilled by burning gasoline, though it is sometimes distilled by burning a petroleum product. More often it is distilled by using other sources of energy. . .not petroleum.<br /><br />Corn and soy are not the best raw material from which to make ethanol. Sugar cane and sugar beets are far more effective. Brazil has made good use of both.<br /><br />Though there may be some truth to NPR's conclusions regarding energy use, they are very misleading regarding the use of gasoline or petroleum.<br /><br />The increased use of non-petroleum sources of energy and the more efficient and cleaner use of all energy are worthy goals. It is irresponsible to clutter a complex subject with nonsense about making ethanol by wasting gasoline.

 

[brine]

Re: Corn ,ethanol and gasoline.

jb I think he is talking abut the tractor costs of planting cultivating and combining corn.

 

[brine]

Re: Corn ,ethanol and gasoline.

Wow my apologies ... he did say fertilizer!

 

[rolmops]

Re: Corn ,ethanol and gasoline.

The report mentioned the amount of fuel actually used to fertilize a bushel of corn.Some of it actually as part of the actual fertilizer,some in the production and transport cost,and then some in the application.<br />JB,they interviewed a scientist who just finished writing a big research report about corn and all its different uses.Part of it was the feasibility of ethanol as a cost effective aternative fuel.<br />Not a journalist's opinion.<br />One of the things that was mentioned,is the lobbying power of farm states like Nebraska and specially Iowa,where presidential elections are lost or won.

 

[WillyBWright]

Re: Corn ,ethanol and gasoline.

I'm having a hard time seeing the correlation. Gas??? I thought most tractors burned Diesel these days. So do the trains and trucks that haul the corn in and the ethanol out. Fuel used to process the corn is usually Natural gas. They certainly don't use gasoline! So what the heck are they talking about??? <br /><br />Petroleum certainly uses it's share of petroleum to process it and transport it. How about a comparison? How much is the government subsidizing the oil companies?

 

[QC]

Re: Corn ,ethanol and gasoline.

Well-to-wheel is still a big problem for Ethanol. Remember you have to crank the cost of the subsidies back in also . . . And, I don't care where it comes from the energy matters . . . Nat gas, coal, diesel, gasoline or Hydro-electric. There is a cost and it is part of the equation.

 

[bootle]

Re: Corn ,ethanol and gasoline.

"They certainly don't use gasoline! So what the heck are they talking about??? "<br /><br />I believe that the correct term is fossil fuels, gasoline is but only one part of the energy presently spent to provide alternative fuels.

 

[Nos4r2]

Re: Corn ,ethanol and gasoline.

Now run that tractor on vegetable oil and see how much veg oil it has to burn to produce a gallon of veg oil...?

 

[QC]

Re: Corn ,ethanol and gasoline.

LMAO @ Nos There you go, effectively shuts down this thread . . .

 

[BoatBuoy]

Re: Corn ,ethanol and gasoline.

rolmops:<br />"...the lobbying power of farm states like Nebraska and specially Iowa,where presidential elections are lost or won."<br /><br />I thought presidential elections were traditionally lost or won in Florida, or the Supreme Court Building.

 

[heycods]

Re: Corn ,ethanol and gasoline.

Originally posted by Darth D Invader:<br /> Funny thing that you mention this subject, i was reading a govt' agricultural report on subsidies to soya bean farmers, there was a chart showing various commodities and corn was was one of them, i was amazed (no pun intended) at how much a bushel of corn sells for, it was something stupid like $1.45, i cannot remember the exact dollar amount but it costs the farmer a significantly more amount of dollars to produce that bushel of corn.<br />Because of these types of govt' subsidies the third world farmers are being decimated. <br />one only needs to look at the predicament that this has placed on Mexican farmers.

Your vision for dependence would run parrallel to our dependence on foriegn oil. Do we want to become a nation that produces nothing, because its cheeper abroad? With that kind of outlook we soon becom the third world country we are buying from. <br /> Travel this great country and see what has become of our farm land, It is being eaten up by developement. no one builds in a swamp, or on a rock pile hill, the good farm land is where the houses and malls are going. Drive around your metroplex, then envision what it was 100 years ago. In the rural co where I live, thousands of acres have come out of productive farm land, only to be a haven for wildlife , Not knocking an abundance of wildlife, but It wont feed the masses. I could rant on this for days, but this is all I will say on it, the issue is too close to home.

 

[bootle]

Re: Corn ,ethanol and gasoline.

Heycods, the demise of the independent farmer is not due to cheap importation of food, it is however because of the unfair multinational corporate welfare subsides to companies such as Archer Daniels Midland and their ilk.<br />There is no way for the independent farmer to compete on an equally competitive field.<br />therefore they cut their losses and sell out to the property developers.<br />Corporate communism is alive and well in the USA thanks to wonderful regulations of our campagne financing system.