Cold water coming out the prop and not much out ports

auger406

Seaman Apprentice
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Feb 8, 2019
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37
Hey there gents and ladies,
I searched for this particular issue on other threads and could not find this specific issue all though a lot were related. First of all, 1996 2050 Capri, with 2003 5.0 MPI, with Alfa 1 Gen 2 SEI-16 drive purchased 3 yrs ago. The reason for all the work was shifting problem, starting issue, and fix a backwards gimbal bearing, yeah I did that. While doing all this tied in the annual maintenance and change impeller. Good news everything was fixed with repairs and adjustments. Started and ran, I think better than it has in a while, probably due to changing spark arrestor, intake filter, and idel speed control motor that none had been replaced since installed 16 yrs, oops. Now come to the problem. As soon as it started was waiting for the water to start to discharge, it came ,however didn't look to me like the amount from before. Also, I decided to change the impeller just due to two seasons was not seeing any temperature issues. I also noticed that there was " a lot" of water coming out the prop hub. It was cold water even after the engine had warmed up. The temp was at 175, usually rides at about 165ish especially when on cold water hose, and it was cool outside today here, well for Texas anyway. I shut it down, while not hot yet I didn't want it to get there. In my research I found that it is most likely one of few things, or a combination. 1) Water tube or guide is not lined up and allowing more water to bypass and not get to engine and then running out through the prop exhaust area. 2) The seal on the top of the water pump kit is not in correctly causing same result, or 3) Watching a few you tube videos that the kit I received may not of had the correct amount of gaskets. I ordered the GLM Water pump service kit for an Alfa 1 Gen 2 (Part # 12043). Does the water coming out the prop trigger anything specific for anyone? Was thinking of just pulling the lower unit vs pulling the entire outdrive since i was just in there, like lees than 6 hrs ago. Anyway I will go at it tomorrow but anything to clue me in to make me feel better. And to help my pride a little bit. Thanks folks.
 

Rick Stephens

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Aug 13, 2013
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6,118
I can see where the water pipe not being installed correctly would just dump all the water out the prop, no where else for it to go. I'd probably confirm that by pulling the 'in' water line off the thermostat housing and turn on water to muffs then fire the motor up. If there is water getting through the impeller and up to the motor you will see it in 20 or 30 seconds. If not, drain and pull the drive and go back in and fix it.

If you are just pulling the lower, and not the entire drive, you are kinda asking for issues in reassembly. It is so much easier to drop the upper onto the lower in a bench fixture than it is to lift the lower up and get it lined up correctly.

Also, there is no backwards or forwards with a gimbal bearing. While Mercruiser recommends the slots in the carrier face forward, the only reason for that is so users don't replace just the bearing instead of the entire unit.

Rick
 

auger406

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Feb 8, 2019
Messages
37
I can see where the water pipe not being installed correctly would just dump all the water out the prop, no where else for it to go. I'd probably confirm that by pulling the 'in' water line off the thermostat housing and turn on water to muffs then fire the motor up. If there is water getting through the impeller and up to the motor you will see it in 20 or 30 seconds. If not, drain and pull the drive and go back in and fix it.

If you are just pulling the lower, and not the entire drive, you are kinda asking for issues in reassembly. It is so much easier to drop the upper onto the lower in a bench fixture than it is to lift the lower up and get it lined up correctly.

Also, there is no backwards or forwards with a gimbal bearing. While Mercruiser recommends the slots in the carrier face forward, the only reason for that is so users don't replace just the bearing instead of the entire unit.

Rick
Thanks Rick,
After sleeping on it I figured the right thing to do was pull the entire unit. I have a metal stand that was awesome in all of this removal and install. I used it to to remove and replace the impeller and said wow this is so much easier. What was holding me up was on a previous out drive, same boat, I just did the lower and had no problems. Was probably luck first time and this time, looking more into other water pump kits,I may have not been sent the entire seals required with he kit. My fault for not comparing or really paying attention. Time will tell when I take it apart. Thank you for the reply. Will let know later today what I find.
Oh and yeah I was tired yesterday, hence the mis spelling of the title of the thread. Lol. I really love this stuff learning more and more everyday.
Good to know on the gimbal bearing. I had a loud knocking sound when turning hard to port and starbord. I was hoping that that was the fix. I did not check that yesterday. Time will tell. I also had trim cylinder busing that were worn out and replaced all of them as i found that could be a symptom too. Time will tell.
 

auger406

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Feb 8, 2019
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37
Well so I got it apart. Funny how easy it is when it was just apart yesterday. I am fairly certain the tube was misaligned or in backwards causing water to bypass. Have gasket, wear plate and gasket. One question, I might be over thinking this is it okay for small gaps around the pump housing after being installed? It is just enough to slide a piece of paper under it. Also, there is a gap at the back where the rubber insert is separating the exhaust discharge from water intake. Should i just put it back together. I cleaned the sealing area very well. But did not use gasket sealer. Should i just buy all new stuff or put it back together and send it.
 

auger406

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Feb 8, 2019
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See pictures around housing.
 

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auger406

Seaman Apprentice
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Feb 8, 2019
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Always follow the service manual. You need #`14 for a Gen2.

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Yes sir. Had a copy of it and should have put it on to start with. I learned a lot this time. Probably a combination of no sealant and pick up hose not lined up correctly. I also, notice the gasket had a tear might have been due to pulling it off but got a new one anyway. Looked a lot better once I put it back together again. Will install the drive tomorrow. I think I am going to print and laminate this entire manual. I have a Clymer but it is from 95-97 and the engine and stern drive are both way newer. I saw someone state they make good seat cushions. I watch you tube but should just be for reference as well. Thanks for all your guidnace. Funny thing OEM will never let you down.
 

auger406

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Feb 8, 2019
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37
Well back to the drawing board. Ran it today now i am not getting any discharge out of the exhaust/ discharge ports. I started to see steam coming out and shut it down before it got hot. Both manifolds were warm to the touch. Can this problem be associated with the thermostat? Or possibly plugged hoses or risers? I had one riser off when I was replacing the shift cable and looked in and they looked fine. I am really just looking for some guidance. I am getting water to to the single point drain. As soon as it started there was water discharge at the drain point and then then i closed ioof to wait for the system to fill up? If it is pulling the water in from the hose where could the water be going? I just don't want to start replacing parts. I plan to change thermostat tomorrow. Before i change out the entire cooling system. Would like some feed back. Engine water pump? One last thing now leaks in the engine compartment to the bilge.
 

auger406

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Feb 8, 2019
Messages
37
Well back to the drawing board. Ran it today now i am not getting any discharge out of the exhaust/ discharge ports. I started to see steam coming out and shut it down before it got hot. Both manifolds were warm to the touch. Can this problem be associated with the thermostat? Or possibly plugged hoses or risers? I had one riser off when I was replacing the shift cable and looked in and they looked fine. I am really just looking for some guidance. I am getting water to to the single point drain. As soon as it started there was water discharge at the drain point and then then i closed ioof to wait for the system to fill up? If it is pulling the water in from the hose where could the water be going? I just don't want to start replacing parts. I plan to change thermostat tomorrow. Before i change out the entire cooling system. Would like some feed back. Engine water pump? One last thing now leaks in the engine compartment to the bilge.
I just found a random drawing that shows the restrictor gasket in
between the riser and manifold with the restricted side to the aft of the boat not the front as another drawing indicated? Does anybody know which way it goes ? Could it be that simple?
 

auger406

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Feb 8, 2019
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Being methodical about replacing stuff. Replaced the original thermostat gasket, sealant, thermostat sleeve, and housing gasket. Waiting for a drain plug to come come tomorrow then will try it to see if it was the thermostat. Have not removed the stud riser with he potentially backwards gasket yet still reading diagrams if it makes a difference. The mercruiser manual #31 does not have a correct drawing. Anyone have any experience with gaskets if they go in backwards for the restricted gaskets. Again Have A 5.0 MPI Serial number # OM665929.
 

auger406

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Feb 8, 2019
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Ugg. So started it up and same thing. Zero discharge out the exhaust ports. I waited this time longer to make sure everything was full and the thermostat opened. Temp got up to just under 175 deg on my guage. Looked and no discharge. Steam coming out of the prop discharge. I shut it down. No leaks in the boat. Now I'm seeing water coming out around one of the bolts for the lower. Try to post a video but not going very well too large. I really am stumped at this point. When I open the single point discharge it is hat water that comes out. And appears to be the correct amount.

On previous post I did not change the gasket around looking at Service manual #37 it indicates that i am correct in the the orientation of the gasket, towards the bow with the restricted side. I am leaning towards a new impeller. i need a break from it for a few days to think. Something has changed, yes still getting the cool water out the prop.
 

wshekar

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Dec 30, 2020
Messages
75
No sir not my system don't have a closed system.
The figure shown is not for a closed system. The diagram is for raw water cooling with a warm water manifold system.

You need to trace where the water is being stopped at. Check the impeller, then the circulating water pump. I believe the restrictor gaskets can only be oriented in one direction. Since you have the warm manifold system you should in fact have the restrictor gaskets.

Perhaps @Rick Stephens can provide the flow diagram to show exactly how the water flows through your system.

I suspect the problem is with the impeller or housing.
 

auger406

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Joined
Feb 8, 2019
Messages
37
The figure shown is not for a closed system. The diagram is for raw water cooling with a warm water manifold system.

You need to trace where the water is being stopped at. Check the impeller, then the circulating water pump. I believe the restrictor gaskets can only be oriented in one direction. Since you have the warm manifold system you should in fact have the restrictor gaskets.

Perhaps @Rick Stephens can provide the flow diagram to show exactly how the water flows through your system.

I suspect the problem is with the impeller or housing.
Okay thanks. I have thought about the circulating water pump as it is the original. Those flow diagrams are difficult to follow, for me anyways. Use to work and kids have not been able to constantly troubleshoot other than fix this then this. i am leaning towards buying a complete new impeller kit. Thank you didn't mean to second guess the drawing just have seen so many of them
 

wshekar

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Dec 30, 2020
Messages
75
Hopefully I can help clear up the flow directions. The diagram shows all of the components within the boat. The water goes from the outdrive into the boat via an impeller. The water is carried through hose "A" as shown in the diagram. The water travels into thermostat housing where it is distributed between 5 other hoses. One hose goes to the water circ pump, 2 hoses go to the bottom of the manifolds and 2 hoses go to the risers. As a simple check, I would take off any of those hoses at the temp housing to see if you even have flow at that point. If not, then it is most likely the outdrive. If yes, then take a plug out of the manifold and see if water flows out. Keep working your way through the system.

It is generally a mistake to replace parts without knowing the problem. You can tell if a water pump is failing by checking the weep hole under the pully. If you see water stains, then replace. Though, the water pump will not prevent water from coming out of the exhaust ports.

There is not much that can prevent flow from existing the exhaust ports. I can only think of rust/blockage (at the riser) or failed impeller.
 

Rick Stephens

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Aug 13, 2013
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I always recommend that you pull the hose off the thermostat housing on the port side that comes from the transom. Hook up muffs with that hose hangin there and fire up your motor. If you get good flow it should be able to fill a 5 gallon bucket in 30 or so seconds, then the impeller is doing the job. If it doesn't, then the problem is between there and the impeller.
 

Grub54891

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Jun 17, 2012
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5,908
Haven't read through the entire thread, but did you make sure the oil cooler is clear of debris?
 
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