Classic Cars

[Maclin]

Re: Classic Cars

I have 3 sons, oldest is an MD and has a late model Subaru WRX 4door thingamabob, goes like crazy AND handles. He did not like any of my hotods when growing up. The son with the MoPar gene is the middle and is totally hotrod crazy, and youngest son wants a new Challenger but understands the lineage at least. Daughter wants a Mustang, we shall see (I am a closet Mustang liker also).

 

[Bigprairie1]

Re: Classic Cars

Speaking of Classic C10's...here are a couple of mine ('66 and '72).
Being a classic car guy I am often in discussion with a bunch of guys...none of them younger...about this issue and how to resolve it.
There are lots of angles to this issue, starting with the very positive fact that you don't have to work on vehicles very often any more and its been that way for probably approaching 15 years....we all live with this in our daily drivers and its a good thing. Cars and trucks have never been better built or more reliable.
As for the younger generation....well, it has more to do with the culture of how they are raised. This begins far more with the influence from home and parents (in spades) than much influence from their teachers on non school issues.
Why would these kids be interested in classic cars?....who in the family is already or currently involved in the hobby? Probably no one...certainly not mom and increasingly...not Dad who is becoming equally inept at just about anything requiring being handy.
On top of that, you take a culture of parenting born out of the self-esteem movement of the 80's that provides everything from free spend money, free daily transportation, smart phones at increasingly younger ages,....then you get what you raised. Good thing? bad thing? tech saavy for sure but these days....but who isn't. Being tech saavy as a 6 year old is now well on its way out for usefullness given the fact that Grandma now downloads her own software and music....LOL

BP

 

[dingbat]

Re: Classic Cars

:lol: but I think there was still something passed on there to the next generation... you know, things like the old saying 'take care of your horse, and it'll take care of you' can still be said of your car, your boat, your house, ect.. i learned this the hard way a few times in my life, but i know it now none the less... everything nowadays has shifted; if something stops working, toss it and get a new one, there seams to be a disturbing lack of any 'understanding' of things... 'meh, i'll just google it' (dont get me wrong, the internet is a powerfull tool.. but thats it, its a TOOL, not the bible, or the definitive 'everything'... IMO what you can do with some knowledge, and skills, is more important than the high score on guitar hero or what #people are following# and how many people 'like' this .... definitely noticing an ever growing gap with the younger generations... oh my god, I think I might be turning into an old guy.. :laugh:

Take away the nostalgic interest in a 50 years old car and what do you have?

The "kids" see an over sized, gas guzzling, rust buckets that where not partially comfortable, required repairs almost on the weekly basis and where not particularly good at anything except making noise if you took the muffler off.

From a performance perspective, you can buy a Toyota Camry that will run faster 0-60 times than most muscle cars of the day. From a technology standpoint they where junk. What is there to like or admire for someone that grew up in the tech world? 8-track tape decks? Points and distributors...really? "Geez...why don't they have air bags" my 17 year old daughter looking at "classic" cars with me in the shopping center parking lot one night...lol

 

[Bigprairie1]

Re: Classic Cars

Take away the nostalgic interest in a 50 years old car and what do you have?

The "kids" see an over sized, gas guzzling, rust buckets that where not partially comfortable, required repairs almost on the weekly basis and where not particularly good at anything except making noise if you took the muffler off.

From a performance perspective, you can buy a Toyota Camry that will run faster 0-60 times than most muscle cars of the day. From a technology standpoint they where junk. What is there to like or admire for someone that grew up in the tech world? 8-track tape decks? Points and distributors...really? "Geez...why don't they have air bags" my 17 year old daughter looking at "classic" cars with me in the shopping center parking lot one night...lol

...and there is the rub.....the same could be said about Grandparents and their relevance to the young....LOL.

The comparitive of these cars and this hobby to modern transportation....is waay off track. There is no comparison...and I have this discussion with a lot of people who usually aren't in the hobby and simply don't get it and put it in perspective.
The Classic car hobby is as much about history and design art as anything. This was an era where standardization was for the better part...frowned upon because it didn't allow distinct design.
I love Toyotas...but the road is now full of these silver potatoes that don't have a hope of ever being unique.
The other increasingly lost art relates to the ability to use hand tools and innovation to solve problems...and these cars by nature, need a fair bit of that. Thats perfect for learning these skills and at the end day you can drive your results around and enjoy the fact that you aren't one of the silver potato gang. This is to say nothing about the health benefits you get from getting those kids off of the couch and away from their X-box and a fridge full of pop and to get them outside to move around and physically articulate themselves while problem solving.
As for the environment....again not very valid given the fact that the restoration and reclamation of these cars has a very high element of recycling in it.
Remember, any group that throws away their smart phone and their ipod every 15 months and leaves their 2 year old computer and television at the side of the road after replacing it on boxing day...again, has no rights when it comes to commenting on the environment and this applies to well over 1/2 of the under 30's....probably closer to 80%.
Interesting discussion on many fronts.
BP

 

[avenger79]

Re: Classic Cars

BP those are very nice looking trucks. I have to break your heart, if I should get it, it go back to stock. LOL never got that gene from my dad.

BTW my better half owns our '73 VW and a Mustang. girls like cars too. I make her do her own work as well. I help but she has to get her hands dirty if she wants to call it hers.

she works on her own Harley to.

One of the guys I work with thinks she is a dream girl LOL she's just well trained. LOL

 

[Bigprairie1]

Re: Classic Cars

BP those are very nice looking trucks. I have to break your heart, if I should get it, it go back to stock. LOL never got that gene from my dad.

BTW my better half owns our '73 VW and a Mustang. girls like cars too. I make her do her own work as well. I help but she has to get her hands dirty if she wants to call it hers.

she works on her own Harley to.

One of the guys I work with thinks she is a dream girl LOL she's just well trained. LOL

Thats great that your better half is into the hobby....not always a very common thing but great when it happens!!
Having an understanding and supporting wife and partner is pretty helpful in the hobby...mine is and it makes a great difference.
Yeah, both those trucks are very stock...the blue '72 is a high option California truck and the red '66 is Florida import...running the ol' straight 250-6 with a 3 on the tree.
I love driving that blue one although I don't license it over the winter....but I absolutely love getting it back on the road come spring.
It is actually an extremely reliable, easy driving vehicle....not a chore in the least.....it really is a very good truck and I wouldn't hesitate on heading out on a several hundred mile trip with it. Most of the mechanics I do to it are simply optional putzing around for fun and interest and not so much for repair.....I love the tools and the camaraderie of the hobby car guys and when I can I'm happy to help and promote others entering it.
If I had my druthers I would add a '66 Stingray coupe/327-4speed to the fleet....but that is a little out of my price range at the moment...LOL.
So...when are you getting your next classic??
BP

 

[Bigprairie1]

Re: Classic Cars

How long before all those all big block gas guzzlers we all grew up with will have to be made non-operational like certain guns / weapons are today? Or will it just come down to a time where ALL cars, new and old MUST get "N" MPG and if it doesn't you can't put tags on it?

Thats a good question Bubba...but i don't think it will ever get any traction in a real sense. Older technology, like these cars, is a bit of a blip on the screen for whats out there mostly and just doesn't warrant any type of heavy handed action to remove them for environmental purposes or otherwise.
When there is a move to start doing that...the next thing you know you have the energy police wanting to know if your fridge, tV, dishwasher, tractor, motorcycle, outdoor shop bulbs are environmentally up to standard.
The best thing for the environment (not the economy) is to only allow a new product purchase cycle every....say 3 to 5 years perhaps for certain types of common consumer products (cars, tvs, phones, stoves...uh, boats!).
Imagine if new cars were only produced and released every 5 years instead of every year? Its not like there are not enough cars to keep the planet mobile for the next 3-5 years...I think most people would agree on a basic level.
However the impact on the economy based on consumption and modern consumer/shopping culture would be disastrous...although the environment would undoubtedly love it!:lol:

BP

 

[Fleetwin]

Re: Classic Cars

Lot's of intersting comments-Pro and Con. Well done!

My two sons are both Gearheads. One much more than the other but both love powerful, nice handling cars.

I drive a 2014 Ford Explorer Sport. 3.5L EcoBoost. What a ROCKET! This car would easily outrun my 1970 Buick Gran Sport 455. Not only in straight line acceleration but handling isn't even comparable. Like night vs. day.

Taking a curve at 80 MPH, in the Buick, is frightening-may not survive it- but the Explorer wants to go faster. AWD and handling enhancements make it so.

However, the Buick is styling genious. It looks fast sitting still. Not to mention that BIG V-8 burble.

It's just different now. The car industry is an old one, in modern terms. Over 100 years old.

I think it's a task to get the youngsters in to performance driving. Once in, they will never forget. Actually feeling the G's, smelling the smells, will replace any video game.

 

[Bigprairie1]

Re: Classic Cars

Hmm I don't know. Sort of like I never thought we would be required to have Cat. Convertors on run abouts.

interesting...thats new to me. Are catalytic converters now required on older runabouts as a conversion? or just the new manufactured boats? Seems like a good idea....at least on all new powerplants and manufacturing.
That said, if they pushed to have better pollution control technology required for classic cars...I'd be more than interested....I'm not completely stuck on the 'only' original drivetrain thing. If I had to add some updated converter stuff....so long as I got some sort of possible tax break, I'd entertain it I think.
That said, a lot of these older vehicles have now switched over to modern drivetrains. I know a lot of guys running around in these trucks that have all new series LS powerplants in them...pretty easy swap. You get the power, mileage, reliability all in...with the classic style and good looks.
Its not my thing...yet, but I can appreciate the swap effort and the guy (or girl) is still displaying some good style on the exterior...LOL
BP

 

[Fleetwin]

Re: Classic Cars

Hmm I don't know. Sort of like I never thought we would be required to have Cat. Convertors on run abouts.

Bubba, it's HERE! You can ONLY buy a Cat. Conv. I/O in California. Many border lakes between CA nd AZ reguire the cat's on NEW boats.

If the boat is Three Star rated, most I/O's are, there is a Grandfather clause-for now. Not long.

I was surprised to see MercCruiser come out with an EFI/Cat. Conv. version of the old 3.0L. That is one of the dirtiest engines, on the planet. I would have thought they would have Marinized a more modern engine of about the same displacement. Nope.

I almost bought one until I read the reviews. It seems there are some "issues". Their larger displacement engines seem to be OK.

Volvo Penta dropped the 3.0L altogether.

I don't think the Government is ready to attack gas furnaces, water heaters, etc. With that, they would be messing with peoples survivability. But, don't hold your breath-"they're here"! The EPA is an unelected, uncontrolled agency.

We do all of this and watch China blow so much pollution into the environment that they are struggling to survive it. But, we all want cheap Chinese stuff.


Nuff of that.

All it takes is a little thought and a trip to the voting booth.

Vote in some people with some COMMON SENSE. Reign in the EPA.

 

[Bigprairie1]

Re: Classic Cars

Funny thing about the EPA (or any environmental agency), their mandate and the pollution angle. I can't remember when the air was cleaner in my lifetime than it seems to be right now...thanks to new car emissions technology...and I think its still going to get better than what it is now!!!
So.....I figure there is a little wiggle room for me to have my classic trucks and their outdated emissions technology...LOL....I almost forgot what 'smog' smells like...until I hit the classic car show'n shines!
BP

 

[Fleetwin]

Re: Classic Cars

How long before all those all big block gas guzzlers we all grew up with will have to be made non-operational like certain guns / weapons are today? Or will it just come down to a time where ALL cars, new and old MUST get "N" MPG and if it doesn't you can't put tags on it?

Europe (Britain) figured out a way. It's called a TAX!

Marvel idea, going right back to Serfdom (the haves and the have nots).

Doesn't anyone read/know history? They're counting on you-NOT. And, they are correct in their assumption>

 

[dingbat]

Re: Classic Cars

How long before all those all big block gas guzzlers we all grew up with will have to be made non-operational like certain guns / weapons are today? Or will it just come down to a time where ALL cars, new and old MUST get "N" MPG and if it doesn't you can't put tags on it?

Interesting you should say that. Working in Germany, I noticed that you don't see any "older" cars on the road. Why, your taxed on your emissions. By the time a car is "older", the emissions tax is so high you can't afford not to buy a new car. Keeps the auto workers imployed

 

[southkogs]

Re: Classic Cars

One of the interesting things that I see happening, but I can't quantify - New cars may have lower emissions, but MPG I think is going downhill.

I had a '92 Ford Escort Wagon with a 4 speed. 1.9L at 60MPH would get 45MPG. It was a compact car, but reasonably roomy. But look now at some of the compacts or even the sub-compacts and they're really not getting that kind of mileage. The Fiesta is only calling for 38 and the Dart and the Focus are more like 36.

A mid-90s Taurus should get 32 on average.

Some of the imports are delivering a little better ... but the cost difference is rather substantial.

I'm not so certain we're progressing as fast as we think.

 

[Bigprairie1]

Re: Classic Cars

One of the interesting things that I see happening, but I can't quantify - New cars may have lower emissions, but MPG I think is going downhill.

I had a '92 Ford Escort Wagon with a 4 speed. 1.9L at 60MPH would get 45MPG. It was a compact car, but reasonably roomy. But look now at some of the compacts or even the sub-compacts and they're really not getting that kind of mileage. The Fiesta is only calling for 38 and the Dart and the Focus are more like 36.

A mid-90s Taurus should get 32 on average.

Some of the imports are delivering a little better ... but the cost difference is rather substantial.

I'm not so certain we're progressing as fast as we think.

...thats a very good point...and the reason for the drop since the late 80's/early 90's is tied to the increased weights of the cars and the increased power outputs.
The weight increase is largely due to the consumer demand to have nearly ever car now....fully loaded..leather interiors, a/c, power accessories, etc. This has bumped all the car weights from what they were back in the 80's substantially.....and weight is easily a car and its performance...worst enemy.
The power upgrades have come as a result of the new generation hp race since the 90's. 200+ hp in any car in 1990 was not too common.....now....pretty much everything has 200hp and a lot more....and more power, eats more fuel.
That said, they are going back to Turbocharging again to minimize engine size without losing too much performance...all marketed under different 'new' trade names like 'eco-boost'...very clever.
The decrease in engine size will help bring some of the gas mileage figures back up again...under some operating conditions.
BP

 

[dingbat]

Re: Classic Cars

The other increasingly lost art relates to the ability to use hand tools and innovation to solve problems...and these cars by nature, need a fair bit of that. Thats perfect for learning these skills and at the end day you can drive your results around and enjoy the fact that you aren't one of the silver potato gang. This is to say nothing about the health benefits you get from getting those kids off of the couch and away from their X-box and a fridge full of pop and to get them outside to move around and physically articulate themselves while problem solving.

We're getting old my friend.
I've never been a car guy. I learned to work on cars out of need, not want. Every time I as under the hood of a car I prayed for the day I could afford to have someone else mess with it. I appreciate the dedication and work but that's about it.

You mentioned kids of today. As a child of the 60's and early 70's..... I'm just thankful my kids are not doing what I was doing at their age :laugh:

 

[avenger79]

Re: Classic Cars

BP I hope to grab a new project soon. hopefully this year. if not the C10 then maybe in a couple months when we have our big swap meet. sometimes you can find a nice one there for a good price.

as for the MPG, I had a geo metro as a work car, pushed 50 mpg on the highway. not much for comfort though. drove it from WI to TX on one trip. LOL

I think they'll just let the old cars slip awy quietly on their own. just look at this thread, fewer and fewer people willing to save the oldies and most who are willing aren't getting any younger either.

 

[dingbat]

Re: Classic Cars

I had a '92 Ford Escort Wagon with a 4 speed. 1.9L at 60MPH would get 45MPG.
A mid-90s Taurus should get 32 on average.

Mid-90's Ford Taurus = Avg. 21 mpg
Gas Mileage of 1995 Ford Taurus

'92 Ford Escort Wagon - Avg. 29 mpg
Gas Mileage of 1992 Ford Escort

 

[greenbush future]

Re: Classic Cars

How long before all those all big block gas guzzlers we all grew up with will have to be made non-operational like certain guns / weapons are today? Or will it just come down to a time where ALL cars, new and old MUST get "N" MPG and if it doesn't you can't put tags on it?

The sky isn't falling and I don't really think it will get to that Bubba. The new rodders are "drifting" I think. Just as we built what thought was cool, they are doing their style of rodding too.
That said, there are way fewer young kids doing much of anything I can say is cool, sad but true. All behavior has a reason??? Pick the one you think fits. My dad worked for GM as an engineer, I am still surrounded by more vintage US metal than just about anywhere in the US. Dream cruise is really cool if you want to make a weekend trip to the Motown!!

 

[bassman284]

Re: Classic Cars

Actually a lot of the additional weight goes to satisfying crash test standards.