China.

[JB]

Re: China.

OB, I can see that you are pretty bitter about the trends in world economy.<br /><br />That's why I asked the question about what do we do.<br /><br />Seems to me that clinging tenaciously to manufacturing jobs that cost employers 8 or 10 times what outsourced jobs do is a sure trip to the end of the road.<br /><br />My point is that there are things we do better and cheaper than anyone, and there are jobs that MUST be close to the client/customer. Manufacturing is not one of those things or jobs.<br /><br />USA is desperately short of health care workers, teachers and other service workers and professionals.<br /><br />We also have the best education and training in the world. I spent the last 15 years of my career converting unskilled and blue collar workers into white collar technical workers and para-medical workers.<br /><br />Too old?? Too poor?? Hogwash. I finished my Ph.D at age 60, financed completely with loans, grants and scholarships.<br /><br />We are not going to return to a blue collar manufacturing economy. You have options and there is plenty of help available.<br /><br />Your fantasy that stockholders are getting rich is just that: fantasy. Ask anyone who put their savings into stocks what has happened to their capital in the past 4 years, and bring Kleenex with you.

 

[ob]

Re: China.

Unskilled blue collar workers???What is that?Someone that doesn't sit behind a college classroom desk or work in the medical profession?.I don't remember implying that I was in need of a new and promising carreer.I've worked hard my whole life and conserved much.I'm doing quite well myself and am looking forward to my wife of 28 years and myself retiring together and enjoying the rest of our lives watching our children and theirs grow and prosper.I'm glad for you in obtaining your PHD if that's your bag at age 60 ,but you seem to imply that I have somehow givin in where you have strove forward.You might shed a pearly yourself if you knew how much CSW stock that I was able to suck up before the corporate self servers made it unavailable to us unskilled individuals.But then I don't sit around and rate individuals by the size of their bank accounts or scholastic degrees.You can have the last word since your sort of a know it all last word freak.I'm going to take a long overdue vacation from the forums and do something more constructive with my time for a while. Have a nice day at the Hideout ,whatever it is your hiding from.<br /><br />Talk about a troller.You hold the gold medal in that category.

 

[JB]

Re: China.

That was unskilled (workers) AND blue collar workers, OB. Sorry I wasn't more specific.<br /><br />Your posts read like "poor me, and it's everybody else's fault".<br /><br />I guess you really trolled up a know-it-all that time.<br /><br />Sorry.

 

[snapperbait]

Re: China.

Ok.. I'll bite... GO CHINA!!<br /><br />Three Gorges Dam project... It's all well and good I guess, you know, clean power and all that, but has anyone here tried to buy any concrete lately?<br /><br />Major concrete shortage going on right now worldwide affecting many people from truck drivers to folks who work in the plants to masons and finishers.... Know where all that concrete is going? Anyone? Anyone? China.... They're buying it up like it's going out of style, and paying premium prices for it... I suppose it's good for the offshore producers of portland cement (buy stock ), but what's the "little guy" and even the "not so little guy" gonna do?<br /><br />Building a house? Whatcha gonna do when the ready mix co. says "sorry, all out, no concrete for your foundation"?... The shortage will most certainly drive prices up, and our economy don't need that right now... <br /><br />The reason for the media's ignoring China? I dunno.... Too busy reporting on the iraq shananagans and terrorism, I guess...

 

[cmyers_uk]

Re: China.

Last Year $85Billion spent in Iraq, this year $50 Billion in Iraq, What did China spend? How much aid did US give away last year v China. <br /><br />Look at the UK. Manufacturing jobs went everyone said no problem weve got high tech jobs. Now call centres , back office and computing jobs all going to India where they work for next to nothing but well qualified. Weve just been left with service jobs but there all low paid so the standard of living is falling. P.S Im not bitter my job hasnt gone yet but unless we protect our jobs no one else will and that means buying home grown goods even if they are more expensive.

 

[Kiwi Phil]

Re: China.

I agree with all above. Times are a-changing. I believe a countries wealth is built on its manufacturing base when it exports those products.<br />To me China is a giant industrial economy of the likes the world has never seen before, and it is going to become many more times bigger.<br />That leads inevitably to power. <br />My previous post expressed my concerns with China and the fact it is probably the worlds Super Power at the moment, and if not, then it will be in the near future. <br />I am concerned it may dwarf America and become very dominating.<br />The last time there was a stand off over Tiawan I believed it was fortunate for America and the Western World the stand off never developed in to a full scale conflict. <br />They are becoming incredibly powerful, and I wonder if we shouldn't not only be aware of it, but show a little more concern.<br />Cheers<br />Phillip<br />Cheers<br />Phillip

 

[Elmer Fudge]

Re: China.

And how many of China's manufacturers, not so long ago were American manufacturers?

 

[kenimpzoom]

Re: China.

The only solution is with the consumer. Get the consumer to buy more expensive, similar quality, made in USA goods. Not an easy sell.<br /><br />Only solution, tax imports. Then all costs of goods go up, cost of living goes up, less money for luxury goods, tax revenues fall, the stock market tumbles, etc, etc.<br /><br />This is a very tough situation and it will take someone smarter than me to figure it out.<br /><br />Ken

 

[kd6nem]

Re: China.

Ken- you guessed ten years until china starts sending cars here? Uh, maybe a year or two?!! china auto industry<br />Looks as though we're even lending them the knife with which to cut our own throats economically. What greedy corporate swine would sell us out that way? (Ford, GM??, Chrysler??) I could see maybe if only for their domestic consumption. Will have to wait and see to have the worst confirmed.... Profit is the name of the game, but those with ethics realize there is a line that ought not be crossed. I hope my speculation is wrong, but the signs aren't good.

 

[samagee]

Re: China.

I say the U.S. starts funding small business owners more. Make the money easier to get to, so people will start their own non union manufactuering shops. Change the resrtictions that have been put in place for clean air and environmental purposes. I don't mean ignore the environment completely, but lax up a little to get things rolling again. Once the little guys get over a certain hump of profitability, then they can be held more accountable to environment requirements.

 

[oddjob]

Re: China.

Sam, I agree, but we dont need funding from the gov. we need to get them(liberals) and their red tape out of our pockets. In the lib spin, everyone whos not on welfare or assistance, or owns a business(big or small) is wealthy and greedy.

 

[samagee]

Re: China.

We may not need funding from the governemt, although it is already in place, but we do need the government to say smaller companies can work in a more relaxed area of operation. It has to come from upstairs to have authority and clout behind it. We also have to work through the government to make sure these stupid frivilous law suits are stopped. Those can be some killers to small businesses. I know I don't want to start one because I am afraid of the PC little yuppie wanting his money back, or more.<br /><br />Did you know you can get money from the government, if you own a busineess, and want to do some R&D work? <br /><br />There are things in place, where we could start filling shelves of these little dollar stores ourselves. The trick is keeping the union out of the shop, and stupid lawsuits.

 

[cmyers_uk]

Re: China.

Samagee, <br /><br />The biggest advantage China / India / Thialand / Eastern europe have is wages its so cheap you cant match it. Therefore in order to make a profit the big companies must use those markets or consumers will buy products from companies that do at a lower price. Those companies become more financially powerful and take over the companies not using the cheap labour. <br /><br />Look at the great American icon Snap-On and you will see that lots of the products in the catalogue are now blue-point and made in other countries, as time has gone on some lines the only product offered is blue point no doubt because no one brought the expensive Made in America product as the quality difference didnt justify the price difference.<br /><br />Not sure what the answer is except tax imports which is fine as long as you export less than you import. Dont like the idea of increasing pollution its fine until your kid gets cancer or other disease caused by it.<br /><br />Give you an idea of the problem I am working with some India personnel with degrees , programmers they work to 10:30 every night and cost less than 1/8 of what im paid. Guess who will be out of a job soon!

 

[mattttt25]

Re: China.

all good posts. they are definately affecting our economy right now. we are currently sending them every bit of steel we produce, which has driven up the cost of steel by 60% in the last few months here in the states. in my little world, that means high costs from our contractors. with every dime going to the costs of war, we simply can't execute contracts we planned, and don't have the contingency money required to complete current projects. it's very tough to get anything done right.

 

[samagee]

Re: China.

Chris, the same story we have with our military. We all work by a set of rules. These other countries who want a piece of our pie, do not. We may have to redefine our standard operating proceedures, which isn't going to go over well with unions at all.<br /><br />If we help small businesses get off the ground, and encourage competetion by letting American companies make replica products, then maybe we can get some of those jobs back. I kind of look at it like AMD to Intel. AMD got thier hand smacked a long time ago for duplicating Intel code, and has since then made a competetor product to Intel. Those chips are staying cheap right now. That's not the sole reason, but it helps and is a good example of what I feel we need more of.

 

[cmyers_uk]

Re: China.

92% of all Microsoft Windows product in use in China are Pirate, we should demand they tighten up their rules or sanction them. Re Military notice China arent spending 52billion in Iraq which must come from taxes which in the end raises the price of goods. I really dont know how to compete except by doing cutting edge things and by British / American where possible even if it costs more.

 

[kenimpzoom]

Re: China.

Also the advantages of China / India / Thailand are:<br /><br />Much smaller threat of lawsuits<br />Government willing to work with you, not against you<br />Much less red tape<br />Much environmental regulation<br /><br />As time goes on, these things will change. Lawsuits are starting to catch on. Governments are worried about too much western influence. Red tape is always in the works. Environmental regulations are starting to occur.<br /><br />We just have to weather the storm for the next 20 years while these things catch up to US and UK standards.<br /><br />The biggest recent cost increase has been shipping rates. These have significantly increased due to all the boats being used to bring steel and coal to China. It has signiciantly effected the oilfield business (in which I work.)

 

[cmyers_uk]

Re: China.

Kenimpzoom, good points, also they expect to have more and their labour rates go up. In UK companies that went to india are now changing to Eastern europe as the costs have gone up in India. + As demand for oil increases so will price raising transport costs

 

[kd6nem]

Re: China.

Doesn't China have the largest amount of slave labor available anywhere? Many of their prisoners make all sorts of goods without any pay. For most their only crime was being accused of having an opinion. Of course with poor conditions and the only motivation being whatever pain gets inflicted upon them morale wouldn't be expected to be very high. I suppose this is where many of the poor quality products come from.

 

[timbo1963]

Re: China.

well, how bout we move to china and open an American restaurant. <br /><br />Just kidding. I'll go now.