Check out this transom!

[Indymike]

Re: Check out this transom!

Too nice of a boat not to do it right the first time. Looks to me like the damage that is there is the result of inadequate design... (stress cracks inside) and poor sealing from the factory...(ooz from the drain hole). Plenty of "how to" reading here to help you out.

Pretty cool when you get it done and you will know your vessel intimately.

 

[walk-on]

Re: Check out this transom!

Mike, you're right about doing it right. I've tried to come up with a bunch of ways to fix it up, but I've decided that I'm going to remove the deck and rebuild it. I'm sort of looking forward to learning about how things go together.

I'm not at all interested in putting wood back in the transom so does anyone have any other ideas? I'm leaning toward seacast right now.

I've still got to get the other pictures posted. I'll do that when I get home. Thanks.

 

[andy6374]

Re: Check out this transom!

Coosa board is really good

http://www.coosacomposites.com

I've heard of people using penske board as well.


A wood core that is installed and laid up with fiberglass and polyester resin properly will last at least 30 years.

What starts rot is when people use screws to secure transducers, ect... and they don't bed the screw in anything. The next mistake is that they just use plain ol' silicone...you need to use some 3m 101, 4200, or 5200. Or even better, drill a hole oversized fill with thickened resin then put the screw in. This way if it leaks it won't hit any wood.

 

[tiller7104]

Re: Check out this transom!

Force, I have been following this thread and keeping quiet, the guys here have givin you great advice. My thinking has always been "Piece of mind" Unless your plan on unloading this boat for profit I would do just what you are doing. Half of the fun for me is the research and seeing your hard work come to fruition. Do it right...as you are. Looks like a really nice boat and well worth your efforts, looking closer at your pictures and having some of my buddies look at them, we are of the thinking that an unsuported engine while trailering may be the culprit. In my mind though something is still hinky about all that damage? But that is here nor there you are fixing it right... Good Luck and please keep the pictures coming.

 

[crunch]

Re: Check out this transom!

Coosa board is really good

http://www.coosacomposites.com

I've heard of people using penske board as well.


A wood core that is installed and laid up with fiberglass and polyester resin properly will last at least 30 years.

What starts rot is when people use screws to secure transducers, ect... and they don't bed the screw in anything. The next mistake is that they just use plain ol' silicone...you need to use some 3m 101, 4200, or 5200. Or even better, drill a hole oversized fill with thickened resin then put the screw in. This way if it leaks it won't hit any wood.

"Mike, you're right about doing it right. I've tried to come up with a bunch of ways to fix it up, but I've decided that I'm going to remove the deck and rebuild it. I'm sort of looking forward to learning about how things go together.

I'm not at all interested in putting wood back in the transom so does anyone have any other ideas? I'm leaning toward seacast right now.

I've still got to get the other pictures posted. I'll do that when I get home. Thanks. "



I'm not a big fan of man-made materials, they are not time tested and a lot of the composite materials are weak structurally.

A piece of 3/4 to 1" plywood with no voids will serve if sealed on the edges and faces to prevent water intrusion, for longer than you or I will live... tried and true... IMHO.

 

[strizzy]

Re: Check out this transom!

+1 for the plywood like custombycrunch says. Seal it up nice with resin before it goes in and you wont have to worry about anything. Easy to get, cheap, and is what is in 90%+ of the boats on the water. Done my share of plywood transoms, if you do it yourself, like anything, its going to be better then how it came from the factory.

I looked at the seacast stuff, I wouldnt mind seeing it myself in person, but I would probably go with the plywood myself...

 

[oncebitten]

Re: Check out this transom!

Well, you seem to have missed my earlier post about doing a foam-cored transom replacement, so I'll post it again, and strongly urge you to check it out. I think you'll really find it interesting. It's not that tough, but the foam core requires extra laminations and is expensive compared to wood. I like wood, encased in epoxy and fiberglass- oh yeah!

209.190.4.227/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11294&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Also, before you go using polyester resins, read this

http://www.zahnisers.com/repair/blister/blister1.htm

Especially the bottom where it compares the waterproofness of polyester, vynilester and epoxy. If you're going to sink any money into it, do it right, use epoxy. Or just google waterproofness of polyester resins and read up on it... it's no wonder all of these manufactured boats need their transoms and stringers replaced.

 

[strizzy]

Re: Check out this transom!

I don't doubt that that product would work fine, I just know that wood works fine and has a great price tag. From the many boats that I have seen, if there was a problem with say a transom or stinger(s), there usually was a good explanation that lead to the MAIN reason they needed replacing. Whether it was lack of sealant, to just saturation of water (bad cover, drain plug left in, or the owner just didn't take care of the boat, etc). Because of that IMHO I think poly resin is fine. Unless money is not a factor for you then sure why not go overboard with epoxy.

I did however send information about the seacast system to my shop. Would love to play around with that stuff and see for myself.

 

[crunch]

Re: Check out this transom!

I have to agree with Dave, if I'm going to sink all of this TIME (and time is money... about $100.00 an hr. in my case) into my boat, I'm not going to skimp on materials.

Poly vs epoxy cost is a minor consideration in my case, and the peace of mind epoxy will bring is the larger factor.

One of the reasons I get $100 an hour is that I have the rep for doing it right with the best materials... it's a formula that has worked for me and I see no reason to change it.

 

[crunch]

Re: Check out this transom!

BTW, was working on boat today. Even where it looked like the poly mat was laid down right, I could rip it right off the inside of the hull with my bare hands., slime, mold, and grease under it... probably not the fault of the poly (shoddy workmanship at the factory) but I'll bet you couldn't do that with epoxy, shoddy workmanship or not.

 

[strizzy]

Re: Check out this transom!

I will agree 100% that epoxy is basically bulletproof. I have used it myself, like when I had to rebuild a rebuilt Laser (popular Olympic class sailboat) mast step (always crack after awhile, and THEN the rebuild kits just sucked... ) I used all epoxy on that project. I even dropped a stepped mast on that pretty good, took the paint right off but not even a mark in the epoxy. But I strongly believe that with the right prep work, poly is going to be more then fine. I know in my work my prep work takes way longer in just grinding and cleaning then any other part. Also if I was doing the work for others (ie. at work) I would love to just always use epoxy, but the boss favors the poly for obvious reasons (and because the shop uses poly I was able to get it for the right price).

 

[crunch]

Re: Check out this transom!

Hey, for a shop or factory that pukes them out one after another, poly makes sense. For the DIYS'er... QED

 

[strizzy]

Re: Check out this transom!

Points have been made, very well (it was a nice surprise to see QED outside math proofs though!).

95force90 lets see some updated pics!

 

[crunch]

Re: Check out this transom!

LOL... my 'puter teacher was always saying QED after making an esoteric point... I was always saying... WHAT?... WHAT?

But seriously, I always look for your posts. As a guy that does it for a living, you are invaluable.

 

[oncebitten]

Re: Check out this transom!

It's nothing personal against polyester resin makers, it's just that epoxy is a better product in most ways. I simply believe in recommending the products that will provide the best results first. If someone wants a cheap alternative and is willing to sacrifice quality that's their business.

I understand the need for cheap solutions, and believe me I know all about the reasoning of business. However, this is not a business, this is 95Force90, who I'm sure would like to do his repair right without having to worry about permeable membranes and blistering and incompatability issues and sure doesn't want to think about delamination issues. Even with epoxy, he'll be saving money by doing this job himself over having it done. Take that extra savings and spend it on doing the job once.

We used to have a saying in a company I was happy to leave. "We can't afford to the job right, but we can afford to do it twice." When I left that company, life got better almost immediately.

The problem with cost/benefit analysis is two fold, there's the cost question, which assumes that minimizing cost is an object in all circumstances, which is not the case outside of a few controlled circumstances. And on the other side, it usually referrences the benefit to the company, not the end user. That's also a problem if you're the end user.

And I don't think of my leisure time as money. If I were to charge for my leisure time, Bill Gates couldn't afford to pay me. However, I do give this time freely to friends, family and myself.

 

[walk-on]

Re: Check out this transom!

I've reduced the size of all the pictures on this thread to make the thread more readable. I also want to apologize for taking so long to get the other pictures posted.

I haven't done much work on the boat but you can see from the pictures that I cut the transom cap off with a sawzall and started to drill the wet wood out of the transom. It really is a pain to do it. I'm not sure I'll continue to drill because I'm probably going to have to remove the deck so I can access all the wood and do it right.

Right now I'm leaning toward getting marine plywood and wrapping it with fiberglass. I think I'll take it 1 1/2 inches all the way across the back of the boat unlike the manufacturers 1 1/2 inch in the middle and 3/4 on the outsides.

The center part of the transom is two pieces of 3/4 inch plywood sandwiched together. The gap on the right side is open air. The back transom wood is only one piece of 3/4 inch plywood that goes across the entire back of the boat.

This picture shows the wood that has been drilled out. It was still solid but quite wet - even on the top.

This picture shows just how thin the inner skin is. I was expecting to see something thick like what the back of the boat is made of. I sure was in for a surprise. No wonder the inner skin was cracked like that and let water in. The inner skin is really no thicker than a piece of printer paper. I'm still disgusted when I look at it.

 

[walk-on]

Re: Check out this transom!

I changed my name so I'm sorry if I've confused anyone. My original name was 95force90 because my activation email never came and I really wanted to make a post about a motor issue. I made up a name (95force90) quick so I could post the question. Then I got hooked on the board and I was stuck with a name I really didn't like. Anyway, now I'm walk-on.

 

[biggy boy]

Re: Check out this transom!

How are you making out with the transom repairs?

Glen

 

[walk-on]

Re: Check out this transom!

I know this thread is old but I finally got the boat almost ready for the water again. I got the motor on it last summer and I had it out three times and lost the stator and a coil. I'm ready to get it out again - I hope.

The almost finished product...

In this picture you can see where I cut the cap of the transom off.

You can see the original inner skin on the bottom. Notice the half-oval shape near the bolts? How about the excess sealant around the bolts?

I've still got a bunch of work to do to get it prettied up, but I wanted to reply to let guys know some of the trouble I ran into.

The first batch of SeaCast I mixed up, I didn't add enough fibers and the mixture felt kind of pliable after it dried. It eventually hardened up nice. Another problem I ran into was the wooden mold I made to hold the inner skin in place. The board moved during the pour and you can see the outline in the last picture where the Seacast pushed out between the original skin at the top and the bottom. The good thing is that this area is about four inches thick now. The bad thing is that I had to purchase more Seacast.

The second batch of Seacast arrived and I added all the fibers to the solution - big mistake. The Seacast started to harden before I was ready to pour it and I had a hard time pouring it. I finally had to scoop it out of my bucket and "work" it into shape. Fortunately I only needed to add a couple inches to the top of the transom and to set the cap that I had cut off earlier in the process.

I was very concerned about putting this thing in the water for my first test run but it held up well. My dad held onto the transom and watched for flex during the testing and it all felt solid. I did have a leak around one of my mounting bolts so I had to re-apply sealant as you can see in the picture.

I found some movement of the transom cap after placing the motor and making the test run but I'm not sure if that was from the weight of the motor or from any flexing during running or trailering.

On a funny note, I had the motor mounted for about 5 minutes and I was pushing and pulling looking for any movement and my dad almost made me crap my pants when he jumped up on the cavitation plate with all of his 170lbs and started bouncing on it! The front of the trailer popped up in the air as the skeg touched the ground. It held up well of course and his comment was "might as well find out now if it's going to hold up instead of finding out on the water."

 

[oops!]

Re: Check out this transom!

glad all worked out for you.......


and your dad was right