Censure the President! .. yep it's Feingold

KaGee

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Re: Censure the President! .. yep it's Feingold

Originally posted by PW2:<br /> Hmmm... I guess the FISA law was written just for sport. Laws don't apply if they are inconvenient, I guess.<br /><br />I'm really glad to hear that.
Isn't that what Moral Relativism is all about?? ;)
 

PW2

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Re: Censure the President! .. yep it's Feingold

______________________<br />"And name just 3 people who have had their rights infringed upon by President Bush's domestic spying program.. "<br />___________________________-<br /><br />That is precisely the point. We have no idea who they are listening to. or Why.<br /><br />What we do know is that no one of any party that I am aware of disputes the need to tap into actual terrorists and find out who they are talking to and why. That is specifically why the FISA law was written, to allow tapping in certain cases while avoiding potential abuses, as had been occurring.<br /><br />One has to assume, however, that if all the mechanisms are in place to do something legally, and still they feel the need to go around that law, that something else is going on. It is the only logical conclusion one can draw.<br /><br />Oh, and what did Russ do? Well, he voted against going to war in Iraq in the first place. Too bad not enough others agreed with him.
 

ob

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Re: Censure the President! .. yep it's Feingold

I don't get what the big infringement concerns would be to an average American as to whether my line would be accidently(collateral damage) :) tapped.Do they really want to listen to a conversation between me and Autozone.Do I care.Should I care.Don't you think if the Goverment wanted to do this all along that they would simply just do it,and you and I wouldn't ever know spit?That was a rhetorical question.<br /><br />Of course before all of this radical islamic crap started,I wasn't used to removing my shoes for inspection at airports and having my orifices probed.<br /><br />What is concerning is why so many seem so alarmed about whether their line may or may not be randomly monitored.Fact is,you're being video monitored wherever you go already.
 

jimonica

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Re: Censure the President! .. yep it's Feingold

Just a thought. If the Dems were in control of the executive, legislative and judicial branches of government would all you righties be so nonchalant about giving up your privacy to the government? :rolleyes: Just something I've wondering. :confused:
 

dogsdad

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Re: Censure the President! .. yep it's Feingold

If there was an act of terror in the continental US, and it was found out that the President did not do everything he could to prevent it, there would be widespread clamoring for his head on a stick. There was an authorization for the use of military force on the part of Congress, and intelligence gathering is a part of warfare.<br /><br />The argument that the surveillance being conducted violates FISA is just that, and nothing more. Those of you who jump up and down declaring that the President has violated FISA are in effect claiming to know more about the law than a good many who are in positions of power, including the Attorney General.<br /><br />I think a good part of the problem is that we have never really recognized the concept of the conduct of war on American soil by foreign powers. Another problem is that some refuse to recognize the fact that a foreign power has declared war on us. Like it or not, we are at war, and simply ignoring that fact will not make it go away.<br /><br />I feel safe in concluding that those of you who are turning blue would have no problem with all this if a democrat was making the call.<br /><br />All this howling is motivated by politics alone, just like all the howling that began shortly after the invasion of Iraq. Those who put political aspirations above national security are as disgusting as a roadkill skunk.<br /><br />Feingold and his toadies are Al Quaida's best friends.<br /><br />It must suck to be a democrat.<br />*glub, glub*
 

dogsdad

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Re: Censure the President! .. yep it's Feingold

Originally posted by jimonica:<br /> Just a thought. If the Dems were in control of the executive, legislative and judicial branches of government would all you righties be so nonchalant about giving up your privacy to the government? :rolleyes: Just something I've wondering. :confused:
That is a legit question. I would follow it with another question: just how much privacy do you think you have in the first place? That's a rhetorical question...but to answer yours, I think I would be able to accept the fact that we are at war, regardless of which party was in control. I am sure I would have plenty of other reasons to be disenchanted with a democrat dominated government, though, such as the reinforcement of the welfare state, skyrocketing (even worse than what we have now) federal taxes, imposition of more politically correct legislation, outright attacks on religion, outright attacks on the Second Amendment, special rights for certain groups, racial quotas, etc.
 

QC

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Re: Censure the President! .. yep it's Feingold

The left have taken away freedoms before jimonica, that is not in question. The left has restricted my access to property more than the right, my freedom to smoke, my freedom not to wear a helmet on a motorcycle, the list goes on and on.<br /><br />The difference with this so called erosion of my right to privacy is that it is a security issue. Some (me included) feel it is worth a little erosion to be safer and that good people will not have their lives affected (unlike the restrictions sponsored by the left). You simply feel that the security benefits are not worth that erosion of your rights. It is that simple. It is a threshold discussion, a question of degree. Yes, I trust the right to invade my privacy more than I trust the left to do so.
 

WillyBWright

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Re: Censure the President! .. yep it's Feingold

Like Jimonica sez, say this goes on to the next president. What if it's a Democrat? :p What if it's Hillary?? :eek: Are you going to go merrily along with it or do an about face??? :confused: <br /><br />With each successive president, more and more excuses will become "accceptable". By the time all is said and done, Big Brother knows all, sees all, and has total control just like Orwell warns. It may be a few presidents away, it may not. It could be argued that it's already here. Certain of us want to see the progression slowed if not stopped.<br /><br />(Oddjob, Rush Limbaugh had a prescription drug problem and went to rehab after getting caught obtaining them illegally. O'Reilly was involved in a sexual harassment scandal with an employee. The tape recordings were disgusting.) ;)
 

dogsdad

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Re: Censure the President! .. yep it's Feingold

The federal government has been rushing headlong toward tyranny for a long, long time, thanks to a judial branch that serves itself. Whether things can be restored to their proper order without major upheaval remains to be seen. It will be a moot point if can't defeat terrorism in the meantime.
 

jimonica

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Re: Censure the President! .. yep it's Feingold

QC wrote,<br /><br />"The left have taken away freedoms before jimonica, that is not in question. The left has restricted my access to property more than the right, my freedom to smoke, my freedom not to wear a helmet on a motorcycle, the list goes on and on."<br /><br />Not to get off topic but the right is just as guilty as the left in taking away personal freedoms. For example you mentioned access to property. The Republican dominated Supreme Court just made a decision to make eminant domain easier to enforce. Because the business community wanted it. That you can lay right at the feet of conservatives. On the helmet law, I live in what most of the country would consider one of the most liberal states in the country and we have no helmet law. If I were to take a guess I would bet the insurance industry may have their finger prints on the helmet law. As for smoking, you can do what ever you want as long as it doesn't infringe on someone else. I personally like the smell of tobacco (cigar, pipe and cigarette). But my fathers eyes swell up, get all red and has difficulty breathing when he is in a room with smokers. So does he forfit his right to go out to dinner? Or should a smoker wait till they get in the car to smoke? I don't know, its not one of my big issues. BTW, my wife and I have been out to night clubs and we've had to have our coats dry cleaned because of the stale smoke smell.<br /><br />Now to answer my own question. I don't think the right would take too kindly to a Democrat controlled government evesdropping on them. If you guys remember back during the Reagan administration and prior to Gingrich's "Contract With America", the right was constantly railing against government. Lets go down memory lane a little bit and go over some of the more infamous quotes from the Republican.<br /><br />"Get the government off our backs."<br /><br />"The scariest sound you can hear is, a knock on the door and voice saying, I'm from the government and I'm here to help."<br /><br />"Government is not the solution, its the problem."<br /><br />I could go on, but you get the point. It just seems to me now that the Republicans are in charge of just about everything, we are to believe that we have some kind of benevolent dictatorship and we just need to keep our mouths shut because good King George is always looking out for what is good for us.
 

dogsdad

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Re: Censure the President! .. yep it's Feingold

Originally posted by jimonica:<br /> <br />The Republican dominated Supreme Court just made a decision to make eminant domain easier to enforce.
Republican dominated? Puhhhhleeeeze. The democrats have insisted on packing the courts with liberal judicial activists for years, and the republicans have at least attempted to put a stop to judicial activism.<br /><br />I do share your disdain for that particular decision, however. I hope it's overturned.
 

jimonica

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Re: Censure the President! .. yep it's Feingold

Dogsdad wrote,<br /><br /><br />"The federal government has been rushing headlong toward tyranny for a long, long time, thanks to a judial branch that serves itself. Whether things can be restored to their proper order without major upheaval remains to be seen. It will be a moot point if can't defeat terrorism in the meantime."<br /><br />Dogsdad, I think you should read the following from one of your own. Sandra Day O'Conner.<br /><br />"Then she spoke the D-word. "I, said O'Connor, am against judicial reforms driven by nakedly partisan reasoning. Pointing to the experiences of developing countries and former communist countries where interference with an independent judiciary has allowed dictatorship to flourish, O'Connor said we must be ever-vigilant against those who would strong-arm the judiciary into adopting their preferred policies. It takes a lot of degeneration before a country falls into dictatorship, she said, but we should avoid these ends by avoiding these beginnings"<br /><br />The Republicans have been trying to weaken the independence of the judicial branch for a long time now. It just a blatant power grab. It's good to see some moderates are watching.
 

dogsdad

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Re: Censure the President! .. yep it's Feingold

Originally posted by jimonica:<br /> The Republicans have been trying to weaken the independence of the judicial branch for a long time now. It just a blatant power grab. It's good to see some moderates are watching.
That is a total crock! The radical democrats DESTROYED the independence of the judicial branch long ago. American history did not begin with the dawn of your personal political awareness, such as it is.<br /><br />What you refer to as "the independence of the judicial branch" is what I refer to as tyranny of the judicial branch through activist interpretations of law and the synthesis of Constitutional meaning to fit the agenda of the radical left.<br /><br />I do not claim Sandra Day O'Connor as "one of my own" nonethelss.
 

jimonica

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Re: Censure the President! .. yep it's Feingold

dogsdad wrote,<br /><br />"The radical democrats DESTROYED the independence of the judicial branch long ago."<br /><br />Can you explain? I'd like to know what you mean by that statement.<br /><br />Dogsdad wrote,<br /><br />"I do not claim Sandra Day O'Connor as "one of my own" nonethelss."<br /><br />Well you should. Sandra Day O'Connor was quite active in Republican politics down in Arizona before being appointed to the Supreme Court. In fact she was some kind of local Republican chairman. (chairperson)<br />Can you imagine if we had a former Democrat Chairman sitting on the Supreme Court? WOW! You think the whining is bad now?.... <br /><br />The thing is, Sandra Day O'Conner is Goldwater Republican. Todays Republican party is way off to the far right of the ideological spectrum. Goldwater wouldn't even recognize this group of Republicans.
 

KRS

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Re: Censure the President! .. yep it's Feingold

Originally posted by jimonica:<br /><br />.... good King George is always looking out for what is good for us.
He has worked hard to prevent another 9/11, and has done a very good job at it. Thankfully your freedom to post how much you dislike him with childish descriptions like "King" has been protected by the very government you seem to despise.<br /><br />Three cheers for our President and the USA for remaining a safe place to live, one of the few in the world !!!!
 

jimonica

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Re: Censure the President! .. yep it's Feingold

KRS wrote,<br /><br />"He has worked hard to prevent another 9/11, and has done a very good job at it."<br /><br />Not according to the 9/11 commission. :( I believe the commission graded him an "F" for his efforts in trying to prevent the next attack. :( Just because we haven't been attacked again doesn't mean King George is on the ball. Remember it was something like 10 year between the WTC bombings and 9/11. So lets not gloat too loudly. :p <br /><br />KRS wrote,<br /><br />"Thankfully your freedom to post how much you dislike him with childish descriptions like "King" has been protected by the very government you seem to despise."<br /><br />You got me all wrong KRS. I love government. I think government can do a lot of good things. In fact I believe WE ARE THE GOVERNMENT, of the people, by the people, for the people. ;) Not of the corporation, by the corporation, for the corporation. ;) And for the time being, I believe it's still legal for me to go off on "childish" tirades, that is unless King Georges interpretation of the constitution has changed that.<br /> :p :p
 

KRS

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Re: Censure the President! .. yep it's Feingold

9/11 commission.... that's funny stuff right there.<br /><br />Facts are facts, we haven't had another attack.<br /><br />You are right about one thing, we are the gov't, and we elect leaders to represent us, and President Bush was elected by the American people, so realize that you are in the minority, and we all know it's majority rule by us people.
 

jimonica

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Re: Censure the President! .. yep it's Feingold

KRS wrote,<br /><br />"Facts are facts, we haven't had another attack."<br /><br />Your absolutely right KRS. And I'm one of the toughest SOBs around because I haven't lost a fight in 28 years. And I'm an expert skier because I haven't fallen while skiing in 15 years. And my brother can really hold his liquor well because he hasn't fallen down drunk in 20 years. And my mother is an expert driver because she hasn't had an accident in 10 years.<br /><br />Right. Wrong! The fact of the matter is I haven't been in a fight in 28 years, I haven't been skiing in 15 years, my brother hasn't drank in 20 years and my mother hasn't driven in 10 years. And we haven't had any attempts by terrorist in since 9/11. But if it makes you feel secure that King George is doing a bang-up job, I won't burst your bubble. ;) :p
 

POINTER94

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Re: Censure the President! .. yep it's Feingold

What a joke, how about the patriot act. Remember Harry Reid foaming at the mouth that they had defeated it, then voted for it in essentially the exact same form. I guess they voted for it before the voted against it before the voted for it. Nope no lil' russ. Supporting the war keeping the terrorist in their own countries. Nope no russ. How about homeland security? Nope no russ. Who was one of the most vocal opponents against John Bolton? Why thats lil' russ. Now russ is whining about national security, and he has done nothing. But lil' russ and you would like to see the president censured but you have no proof of any wrongdoing. Typical, but not unexpected. Heck liberal Ward Churchill didn't even think that terrorists are terrorists. <br /><br />Now democrats have compared our troops to Nazis. Scream Dean the head of the democratic party has called our CIC a terrorist (very nice), Foamed at the mouth when they held up the patriot act. Laughed at any and all programs. Played politics with appointments. Well OK, other than run away, what have they offered? Cancelled a port deal based on ??????? Inuendo? But felt the Chineese were a good risk.. Pass the pipe please.<br /><br />I love it Katey Couric not a liberal. Chris Mathews not a liberal, neat. I'm a 55 foot dragon with wings and breathe fire. How can anyone take anything you say seriously after that comment. Eh, Katie there is a vast right wing conspiracy to get an intern under my husbands desk.
 

POINTER94

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Re: Censure the President! .. yep it's Feingold

quote:<br />--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br />Originally posted by dogsdad:<br />The democrats have made quite a joke of themselves over the last few years. The frequency with which they get caught bluffing or otherwise screwing up is comical, and the frequency with which their apologists in the so-called mainstream media get caught with their hands in the cookie jar is a veritable riot!<br />--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br />mrbscott responded:<br />For every example you can point out for dems, I can point out 3 for repubs. So please, by all means, give us some examples of what you're talking about.<br /><br />This is somehow confusing to you? I posted <br />10 democratic agents within the mainstream press. I am still waiting for the thirty promised.<br /><br /><br />Fourth Request: What has lil' russ done for national security?
 
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