Catastrophic engine failure...

[haulnazz15]

Re: Catastrophic engine failure...

Yeah, I'd be betting on 350+ for the shortblock, probably 400lbs fully dressed with manifolds.

 

[Oshkosh1]

Re: Catastrophic engine failure...

and the first cylinder has to much oil in it.

That's the one cylinder I put oil in while doing a compression test...

I believe the head gasket is still on in pic 1219

Yes it is...

 

[thejeep007]

Re: Catastrophic engine failure...

Swapping engines myself this is for a 4 cylinder. We lifted one w no head or manifold out w a 2x4 and chain. Not light at all with 3 guys. Backed a wrecker up to the boat to pull the bad engine. Good luck man I am in the same "boat" as you check out my never ending post on here . Guys have saved me tons to aggravation with their knowledge.

 

[Oshkosh1]

Re: Catastrophic engine failure...

**Breaking News**
So, I took the head to the local machine shop "savant"...you know...the guy with a cluttered, messy(but full of cranks, blocks, heads etc...)shop. He took one look at the head and said the valves were sunken in, the seats weren't hardened etc.... Looked at the HG and said it was blown between a couple of cylinders, and the head was probably warpped. For about $250 he'll rebuild and shave the whole thing. It's a start. The fact that ALL of the jugs went at one time told him it was highly unllikely a cylinder problem.

NOW...to determine WHY it overheated in the first place. He's backed up about 2 weeks(builds race engines), so I'll have plenty of time to pull the drive and check.

Funny thing is, that it didn't get hot enough to burn out the exhaust shutter. Still looks like it did when I installed it last year

 

[Oshkosh1]

Re: Catastrophic engine failure...

Funny thing is, that it didn't get hot enough to burn out the exhaust shutter. Still looks like it did when I installed it last year

Just brainstorming here(and no "rainshower" cracks!lol!).
IF...the T-stat stuck closed, would that account for overheating of the engine, but not burning the shutter?

 

[Don S]

Re: Catastrophic engine failure...

IF...the T-stat stuck closed, would that account for overheating of the engine, but not burning the shutter?

No, the engine would overheat, but the shutters and exhaust hoses would still be getting water.

 

[Oshkosh1]

Re: Catastrophic engine failure...

No, the engine would overheat, but the shutters and exhaust hoses would still be getting water.

Maybe I phrased that wrong...I THINK that's what I tried to say. The shutter, silicone exhaust hoses etc... all look good. The block/head overheated.

When I removed the water inlet hose, I actually blew through it. There was no restriction and clear water came out the sterndrive. I haven't seen any evidence of blockage so far. When I dumped the little remaining water out of the manifold there was no sign of sand/grit etc...

I had propulsion, so the driveshaft was moving...so I'm assuming the impeller was also spinning. I'll confirm when I take the drive off and split it to check the condition of the water pick-up tube/impeller et al.

 

[Oshkosh1]

Re: Catastrophic engine failure...

Time to take my medicine...:facepalm:

Some BOOB(um, ME) installed the T-Stat UPSIDE-FN-DOWN...Aaaaaaaaargh!!!

I don't do well with unsolved issues, so I was "burning the midnight oil"...literally...to find the cooling issue while the head is gone for rebuild. I took the T stat housing and seperated it...intendending to test it...guess what? Yep...spring side UP. Methinks I've found the problem...and it's staring me in the face. I suppose that would account for the overheat, yet no obvious damage to the shutters, hoses etc...

If I escape with only a few hundred bucks, a few hours work and a few choice words, into a head that apparently was due for rehab anyhow...I'll consider it a win.

Boneheaded mistake for sure...if I could kick my OWN -$$ I would...but I'll fess up and beg for mercy at my NJP from the "Admiral" in the morning.

Good thing Keel haulings aren't en vogue' or I'd be getting wet.

 

[Scott Danforth]

Re: Catastrophic engine failure...

For what its worth, if you need to pull the motor, most rental places have engine hoists to rent.

 

[Radarman68]

Re: Catastrophic engine failure...

Also, tow truck companies will also come out and hoist the engine with their boom, but probably more expensive method tho. I would just rent a cherry picker.

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: Catastrophic engine failure...

Time to take my medicine...:facepalm:

Some BOOB(um, ME) installed the T-Stat UPSIDE-FN-DOWN...Aaaaaaaaargh!!!

Hey, don't beat yourself up too badly! All of us have done similar things!

You have one of the BEST engines ever put in a boat! Just trot it over to a machine shop and have it rebuilt. Get the head rebuilt/resurfaced and put it all back together!

(Test the temp gage and install an overheat alarm for the next T-stat replacement!)


Cheers,


Rick

 

[GA_Boater]

Re: Catastrophic engine failure...

Hey Osh - It sounds like you actually caught a developing problem. Maybe caught inadvertently, but the valves and seats were going to bite you sooner or later. Sounds like your mechanic knows what he's doing for a reasonable price. A couple of weeks waiting isn't too bad. And you found the cause of the overheat, that's good. All of us have learned from our mistakes.

 

[Oshkosh1]

Re: Catastrophic engine failure...

Hey Osh - It sounds like you actually caught a developing problem. Maybe caught inadvertently, but the valves and seats were going to bite you sooner or later. Sounds like your mechanic knows what he's doing for a reasonable price. A couple of weeks waiting isn't too bad. And you found the cause of the overheat, that's good. All of us have learned from our mistakes.

Yes...it's makes that bitter pill a LITTLE easier to swallow! Also, it gives me a chance to clean up and re-tap the drain on the underside of the manifold. The threads are a little suspect, and I'd like to have a bit larger oriffice to work with.

 

[Oshkosh1]

Re: Catastrophic engine failure...

A couple of questions...

So while the head is out...what do I need to do in order to clean up the blocks mating surface in preperation for the installation? What kind of thread sealant should I use for the head bolts? Any other tips/tricks?

I can't for the life of me find another intake manifold gasket for this model...can I use permatex or the like?. The manifold is the OEM #39922. The gasket is labeled "No longer available" on several marine parts sites. It's still in good condition, but as long as it's out I figured I'd clean, paint and reseal it.

 

[GA_Boater]

Re: Catastrophic engine failure...

I think you can use a car intake gasket. Block water isn't circulated through the intake manifold, so you can get away with an auto/truck version.

On the block prep, I've always used a scraper/putty knife to make sure no old gasket material is stuck to the sealing surface. I can't remember on head bolt sealant.

Hope I helped a little.

 

[Scott Danforth]

Re: Catastrophic engine failure...

strait razor scraper along with 3m mini discs in a chordless drill works for me to remove gasket crap and crud

your machine shop will give you some of the best advise on thread sealants. he deals with it on a daily basis.

 

[Idlespeedonly]

Re: Catastrophic engine failure...

Use these fibrous discs not an abrasive type. These little things are like magic.

 

[Volphin]

Re: Catastrophic engine failure...

No worries on the stat man. We've ALL made mistakes. That's how learning takes place.
The 3M products are very good for block decks. But remember, cleanliness is very important with engine work. Take some old T shirt cotton and insert it into the cylinders when scraping away the old gasket. Prep the surface with carb cleaner on a lint free cloth and wipe it down to remove any grease or oils just prior to head gasket installation. Make sure it has evaporated before installing the head gasket. Also clean the block threads with a small wire brush on a drill. I use a .45 cal barrel cleaning brush found in most cheap gun cleaning kits attached to my drill gun. Just coat with a a little oil and spin it clockwise in the threads. Use carb cleaner to dissolve the oil prior to installation.

You should consider new head bolts while you are at it. Check out the ARP ones.

As far as thread sealant, I use Permatex High Temp Thread Sealant from NAPA in the white tube. ($20?) It has never failed me.

 

[RogersJetboat454]

Re: Catastrophic engine failure...

For me, scrape chunks with razor blade. Clean up the deck with a 3M roll-lock "cookie", either brown or blue (brown is more aggressive). Wipe cylinders and deck down with some brake clean or acetone on a rag. Add a couple of drops of oil to each cylinder. Sealing head bolts, I use Permatex liquid Teflon (comes in a little white bottle with a brush under the cap).

 

[Oshkosh1]

Re: Catastrophic engine failure...

Great suggestions from all...thanks! Really like the .45 bore brush suggestion...I shoot competitively(3 gun/bullseye) so there are plenty in my cleaning box!(I've also found a case tumbler works wonders to clean up old bolts, nuts, washers, small parts etc...).

So here's my dilema.

I'm going to leave the block alone. I know there's minor wear to the cylinders, a VERY small "ridge"(so small it won't actually catch a fingernail...just noticeable). I've never rebuilt an engine like this before, so the learning curve will be steep, and the machine shop is backed up with race engines for at LEAST a couple of weeks. Prior to this, I had compression readings of 130-135 accross the board.

So here's the plan:
I'll put the head back on and compression test it...BEFORE I put it all back together again. If I see acceptable numbers, I'll reassemble and run for the rest of the short Wisconsin season. If the numbers are low or vary greatly...I will just plan on using the "PanfishSlayer" to get my nautical fix this year and begin a complete overhaul immediately.

Now...Seeing the wear, I know that it'll need to be rebuilt eventually, so is there any harm in running it the rest of the season, then pulling the whole shootin' match later? That way I have all(and by that I mean Loooooong)winter to get an engine stand/tools/machine/rebuild/rehab etc...The head will have already been done, so I have just the lower end to rebuild. I figure I'll only be out the cost of a head gasket, but will at least have it running for the next three months or so.

Thanks again for the suggestions...