Carnival Triumph UGH...

[Bubba1235]

Been halfway following the story on the stranded cruise ship and watched some interviews this morning of passengers. I find it hard to believe the company can't get a genny to them (air lift?) and restore at least enough power to handle fresh water and sewage management.

 

[QC]

Re: Carnival Triumph UGH...

What's even more amazing to me, and I am not following the story, that there is not at least one back up generator that they can get started. How do ALL of the engines on board fail at once? These are massive facilities. Like a small city. How is there not back-up to the back-up? Maybe there is, and I don't understand what they do have available . . .

 

[Bigprairie1]

Re: Carnival Triumph UGH...

Yeah, its hard to believe the situation on that ship right now.
These days you would think that these cruise ships would have some excellent back up systems and redundancy plans in place for just about anything along these lines...ie: engine failure, gen failure or what have you.
With the pumping and sanitation nearly shut down, I was reading that the passengers are having to put their feces, etc in baggies or something similar and put it out for the crew to pick up.
They were saying the whole ship smells pretty bad right now....not surprised on that one.
The upside is that between incidents like this and the Costa Concordia...and a few others recently, the costs of these cruises is going to come down to a fairly or easily affordable point.
BP

 

[rbh]

Re: Carnival Triumph UGH...

I seem to remember watching a show on how these ships are built and I think every thing is integral with the engines, at least they said that all the desalinization was done using the engine while its running.


But I bet everyone going to say that this was the crappiest vacation they've had ever, and thats no pun.

 

[RogersJetboat454]

Re: Carnival Triumph UGH...

What's even more amazing to me, and I am not following the story, that there is not at least one back up generator that they can get started. How do ALL of the engines on board fail at once? These are massive facilities. Like a small city. How is there not back-up to the back-up? Maybe there is, and I don't understand what they do have available . . .

Could be the concentration of all the engines near each other. If the fire was severe enough, it may have damaged what's needed to keep electrical up and running.

Regardless... I'm sailing on the Freedom in April. Crossing my fingers for no engine or laundry room fires...

 

[QC]

Re: Carnival Triumph UGH...

I think that's my point, there should be some systems that are "off the grid". I worked at a CAT dealer and my closest friends there were in the rental and genset business. We had trailers, skid mounted, and flippin' 2 kW Westerbekes. You'd think they'd have some independent stuff already on board. Flip, we knuckleheads here talk about kickers being on a separate fuel system in a honkin' 20 foot tinny. There has to be somebody building these mega ships that has a clue.

 

[RogersJetboat454]

Re: Carnival Triumph UGH...

bring in a genny and run a temp. emergency hook up. I've had to do that with entire factories before with a truck mounted genny and had them running in less than a day. Not saying it's cheap but it's doable.

Where are you gunna stick a truck mounted generator though? While the open decks on these ships are big enough for lots of people, I just can't imagine a place on deck 10 or 9 to accommodate something that large.

 

[tpenfield]

Re: Carnival Triumph UGH...

Yup, some of the stories emerging have talked about sewage flowing out of toilets, etc. So, something must have gone seriously wrong.

Some areas of the ship have become the 'poop deck', much to the passenger's dismay

 

[RogersJetboat454]

Re: Carnival Triumph UGH...

I think that's my point, there should be some systems that are "off the grid". I worked at a CAT dealer and my closest friends there were in the rental and genset business. We had trailers, skid mounted, and flippin' 2 kW Westerbekes. You'd think they'd have some independent stuff already on board. Flip, we knuckleheads here talk about kickers being on a separate fuel system in a honkin' 20 foot tinny. There has to be somebody building these mega ships that has a clue.

All comes down to where they are going to put it. They want as many square inches of space available for passengers, crew, and all the services required for a regular cruise. If you have ever been on one of these ships, the business end is all in the back. Propulsion, electrical, water, waste, and the galley. Everything from midship forward is strictly entertainment, elevators, shops, and cabins. Would make for an odd design/flow if they changed things around and had other areas.

Wonder how much power it takes to run the waste and potable water system on one of these suckers?

 

[QC]

Re: Carnival Triumph UGH...

It wouldn't be truck mounted if it was air lifted in. Probaby need a space maybe 6' x 12' for a 100KW diesel powered gen set. No reason it would take more than that to run water / sewage pumps.

A similar, independent, system already on board seems TOTALLY reasonable.

 

[angus63]

Re: Carnival Triumph UGH...

Some have asked about the scale of power generation onboard a large cruise ship. Most vessels are diesel-electric using generator sets for propulsion, auxiliaries, and domestic systems. Typically 6-8 units generating a total near 50 MW (50,000 kw). Usually 80% is used for propulsion when cruising and the balance for all other systems. Most home portable generators are appx 5 kw, so it is the equivalent of appx 10,000 home generators to operate. I would take a guess that it would take 2-3 MW to operate the domestics on a vessel that size. It would be feasable to deck load generators that size, the issue becomes the length and size of cable to reach the busses and distribute. Fire more than likely damaged the "control" of the system power, hence going dead in the water. There are remote generators on board also, but those are limited to essentials like fire pumps, communication, E-lighting, and lifeboat davits. There are several people here at the Academy that sailed on board, so if there are specific questions, I can try to find answers.

 

[RogersJetboat454]

Re: Carnival Triumph UGH...

A similar, independent, system already on board seems TOTALLY reasonable.

May be reasonable for a new ship in the design phase.

What about the current ships Carnival owns, including the ones under a different name? The costs would be staggering to re-design each one with such a proposed change. Ship happens from time to time. Given the ratio of how often one of these ships completes successful cruise, VS how often the ship hits the fan, It would be hard to justify the high costs of refitting each and every one of them.

 

[Fishing Dude too]

Re: Carnival Triumph UGH...

Could be that pm's are not being done as needed instead if it's not broke don't fix it mentallity.

 

[aspeck]

Re: Carnival Triumph UGH...

They have water and sewer working for all the "public" bathrooms. But my take is people would rather not wait in line and use their room bathrooms, then complain because they are not flushing ...

I also wondered why they did not "airlift" the passengers off the ship or do something to make their stay more comfortable, like bringing in PB&J and other food essentials that do not need cooking. I understand the fire happening and taking out the engines and major electrical components, but it does seem like the cruise line is dropping the ball on taking care of the passengers. However, we are just getting one side of the story at this point. Not sure what the other side is ...

 

[tpenfield]

Re: Carnival Triumph UGH...

The Carnival Triumph entered service in 1999, so it is not an older ship by any stretch, and you would think should have good redundancy in its design.

 

[angus63]

Re: Carnival Triumph UGH...

They have water and sewer working for all the "public" bathrooms. But my take is people would rather not wait in line and use their room bathrooms, then complain because they are not flushing ...

I also wondered why they did not "airlift" the passengers off the ship or do something to make their stay more comfortable, like bringing in PB&J and other food essentials that do not need cooking. I understand the fire happening and taking out the engines and major electrical components, but it does seem like the cruise line is dropping the ball on taking care of the passengers. However, we are just getting one side of the story at this point. Not sure what the other side is ...

3,000 + people equals alot of airlifts. Airlifts are risky and are only authorized when life is in danger. Pre prepared foods have been delivered. Passengers are inconvenienced and uncomfortable, but not currently endangered.

 

[angus63]

Re: Carnival Triumph UGH...

I seem to remember watching a show on how these ships are built and I think every thing is integral with the engines, at least they said that all the desalinization was done using the engine while its running.


But I bet everyone going to say that this was the crappiest vacation they've had ever, and thats no pun.

Yes, the diesel Gen sets provide all of the ships power for all systems. Without them, it's a barge.

 

[QC]

Re: Carnival Triumph UGH...

It would be hard to justify the high costs of refitting each and every one of them.

I understand. I was more thinking that it was odd systems like that were not already in place.

 

[angus63]

Re: Carnival Triumph UGH...

What's even more amazing to me, and I am not following the story, that there is not at least one back up generator that they can get started. How do ALL of the engines on board fail at once? These are massive facilities. Like a small city. How is there not back-up to the back-up? Maybe there is, and I don't understand what they do have available . . .

There are many generator sets, it is the control and distribution system which is damaged. Think of it as a regional blackout. During a city's blackout, the generation is available, but the distribution is the issue.

 

[RogersJetboat454]

Re: Carnival Triumph UGH...

Could be that pm's are not being done as needed instead if it's not broke don't fix it mentallity.

It depends on the maintenance required.
Keep in mind they have each one of these ships booked with cruises back to back, sometimes for years on end. Even when they "reposition" the ship to a different port of call, with a different Itinerary, they still usually have guests on board.

Minor stuff is maintained during regular cruises. I have been on the Destiny twice (the original ship the Triumph was based on), and the Victory once (the sister ship to the Triumph). On every cruise, I have seen some form maintenancen being done at least on the exterior (decks stripped, paint work, welding, etc). I can only imagine there is stuff going on down below too.

I would also guess major stuff is usually reserved for when they dry-dock the ship for re-fits/upgrades. From what I've seen, Carnival usually does this every 5 years, give or take.

From what I've been reading on the Carnival forums, the people who have been booked for this ship for the next several weeks have been told by the reps that they are expecting repairs to be completed by the middle of March.