By golly, PW, you were right and we all were wrong, and how could we have been m

POINTER94

Vice Admiral
Joined
Oct 12, 2003
Messages
5,031
Re: By golly, PW, you were right and we all were wrong, and how could we have be

Re: By golly, PW, you were right and we all were wrong, and how could we have be

JasonJ,

The French involved themselves and assisted us during the revolutionary war. Not because they liked us but because they hated England so much. I don't believe we could have won without them.

Just a historical fact. I agree with much of your post.
 

QC

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 22, 2005
Messages
22,783
Re: By golly, PW, you were right and we all were wrong, and how could we have be

Re: By golly, PW, you were right and we all were wrong, and how could we have be

No rewind button . . . Darn it!

"If we bug out on a published schedule it will be a theocratic satellite of Iran in 3 years and what credibility we have left will be history."

Yup, Clancy had this one right too, the United Islamic Republic. We need John Clark and Ding Chavez . . .
 

JasonJ

Rear Admiral
Joined
Aug 20, 2001
Messages
4,163
Re: By golly, PW, you were right and we all were wrong, and how could we have be

Re: By golly, PW, you were right and we all were wrong, and how could we have be

That is true Pointer. They aren't helping too much now-a days, makes a person wonder why...
 

LFK

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Sep 7, 2005
Messages
317
Re: By golly, PW, you were right and we all were wrong, and how could we have be

Re: By golly, PW, you were right and we all were wrong, and how could we have be

Maybe they grew up?

Found out that their ***** size wasn't as big an issue as they once thought?

Matured?

Left Viatnam with a bad taste for stcking their nose in another country's political process?

Those crazy French...Who can say?
 

PW2

Commander
Joined
Apr 21, 2004
Messages
2,719
Re: By golly, PW, you were right and we all were wrong, and how could we have be

Re: By golly, PW, you were right and we all were wrong, and how could we have be

JB said:
Dictatorship 101 alone might have allowed Saddam to survive.

* Attacked two neighbors with intent to occupy and annex them.
* When he got his butt whipped he promised to behave, then didn't.
* Proved his possession and willingness to use wmd by murdering his own people, then led the world to believe that he had more and would use them again and that he was developing nuclear arms.
* Defied the UN repeatedly on issues that he had made promises about.
* Attempted to have POTUS assassinated.
* Regularly attacked US aircraft enforcing no-fly zones.
* Stole billions of dollars intended to feed and care for his people from the oil for food program.
* Paid bounties to the families of terrorist suicide bombers.

Those aren't Dictatorship 101, they are Death-Wish 101.

Yep, he was a bad guy. No doubt about it. He was in a box, and he was not then, in 2003, a threat to the US. We had other priorities at the time, mainly getting OBL and his cronies, who was responsible for 9/11 and who is still free.

I agree that it was a mistake not to anticipate and prepare for the anarchy that followed Operation Iraqi Freedom, or the "insurgency" that followed that, or the inter sectarian carp going on now.

No battle plan survives after the first shot in any war. You make mistakes, adjust and do what needs doing with what you have to do it with.

But under Rummy, we have not fixed the plan. The mantra has been "Stay the Course" We abandoned the Powell Doctrine which says go in with overwhelming force and win, in favor of the Rummy (and Cheney?) doctrine of assuming the best happens, and if that is not the case, do it on the cheap with enough force to at least tie.

We made mistakes in WWI, WWII, Korea and Nam. In the first three we fixed them and went on with it.

In Nam we allowed the media's lust for sensationalism to brainwash the American public into forcing us to abandon our ally to the occupation and annexation of a foreigh invader.

We are at grave risk of the same thing happening to Iraq. If we bug out on a published schedule it will be a theocratic satellite of Iran in 3 years and what credibility we have left will be history.

Iraq is already a theocratic satellite of Iran. The media had nothing to do with it. The Shiite majority will and has insisted on it. As bad as Saddam was, while he was at Iran's throat he was a balancing force to Iran.

We have to encourage the more moderate factions in the mid east Muslims community to help them take back their religion from the radical faction. I know this will be difficult, but there is simply no military solution to the middle east.

And we need to get Afghanistan under control and get Bin Laden and cohorts
 

Rattle-

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Messages
172
Re: By golly, PW, you were right and we all were wrong, and how could we have be

Re: By golly, PW, you were right and we all were wrong, and how could we have be

If some of us are comfortable with calling the French, "frogs", surely we can be as comfortable calling the Jews, "Hebes and Kikes". Probably not...
Some people should be above that...
I don't have a particular afinity for the French, but I know that my Mothers uncle was killed in France, while FDR sat on his a$$, til Pearl.
Sorry if this is off topic

Kerry
 

Kenneth Brown

Captain
Joined
Feb 3, 2003
Messages
3,481
Re: By golly, PW, you were right and we all were wrong, and how could we have be

Re: By golly, PW, you were right and we all were wrong, and how could we have be

And to think I was only trying to make him happy.
 

Boomyal

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Aug 16, 2003
Messages
12,072
Re: By golly, PW, you were right and we all were wrong, and how could we have be

Re: By golly, PW, you were right and we all were wrong, and how could we have be

Rattle- said:
.... while FDR sat on his a$$, til Pearl.


That is one of the most unlearned statements that I have heard on this forum. FDR was itching to get into the battle. It was the American People that he had to work around. That is how Lend Lease got started. He was able to help without getting directly involved.

I think this statement is a clear example of why the schools should quit passing out condoms and teaching diversity and go back to teaching real history!
 

Haut Medoc

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Jun 29, 2004
Messages
10,645
Re: By golly, PW, you were right and we all were wrong, and how could we have be

Re: By golly, PW, you were right and we all were wrong, and how could we have be

Why can't they do both? :p
 

PW2

Commander
Joined
Apr 21, 2004
Messages
2,719
Re: By golly, PW, you were right and we all were wrong, and how could we have be

Re: By golly, PW, you were right and we all were wrong, and how could we have be

By golly, I almost totally agree with Boomie on something! While I am not sure what passing out condoms has to do with it, suggesting that FDR was sitting on his posterior at the time is indeed wildly misinformed.
 
Joined
Jun 1, 2005
Messages
4,666
Re: By golly, PW, you were right and we all were wrong, and how could we have be

Re: By golly, PW, you were right and we all were wrong, and how could we have be

Kenneth said:
And to think I was only trying to make him happy.

Most people do more damage by accident than they do on purpose, you do more good by accident than you do on purpose. ;)
 

woodrat

Ensign
Joined
Jul 27, 2004
Messages
949
Re: By golly, PW, you were right and we all were wrong, and how could we have be

Re: By golly, PW, you were right and we all were wrong, and how could we have be

JB said:
If we bug out on a published schedule it will be a theocratic satellite of Iran in 3 years and what credibility we have left will be history.

On this even I agree, but I see NO realistic plan for doing better coming from this administration, or anyone else for that matter. This administration is all bluster and cowboy quips and swagger, but it's been over three years over there and I don't hear any credible people anywhere saying that things are anything close to stable or progressing in a positive direction over there.

The longer we are there like this, the more our credibility erodes anyway. You can say what you like about the abuse scandals that trickle out of Iraq every month, but it would be foolish and self decpetive to deny that some of this reprehensible behavior is going on regularly and whether americans believe it or not, islamic and middle eastern people everywhere DO believe it, and that also erodes our credibility. I remember when certain parties to this board thought that humiliating prisoners with "panties on the head" and worse was just jim-dandy, but if we really care about American credibility, we would abhor abuses like that, no matter how non-lethal they are. And there have been plenty that were lethal, too.

It just grinds on over there, and it looks to me like treading water at best.
 

12Footer

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Mar 25, 2001
Messages
8,217
Re: By golly, PW, you were right and we all were wrong, and how could we have be

Re: By golly, PW, you were right and we all were wrong, and how could we have be

Hey, Woodrat..Good to see you posting. WTH have you been hiding?
 

woodrat

Ensign
Joined
Jul 27, 2004
Messages
949
Re: By golly, PW, you were right and we all were wrong, and how could we have be

Re: By golly, PW, you were right and we all were wrong, and how could we have be

Well, I've had better things to do than bark up the polticis tree here...;-)

I've been guiding kayak tours non stop all summer, and building a second kayak, and getting ready for a week of fishing after this next week of work. Going down to the ocean today to see how the fishing is.
 

rottenray6402

Ensign
Joined
Jul 27, 2004
Messages
923
Re: By golly, PW, you were right and we all were wrong, and how could we have be

Re: By golly, PW, you were right and we all were wrong, and how could we have be

PW2 wrote:"Now if you change tactics, for example, send in a few hundred thousand more troops, declare marshal law and make non-military owning of a firearm illegal and subject to being shot on sight for violaters, and get that country under control, now that has some logic behind it. I don't necessarily agree with it, but it has a definable goal at least."
PW, wouldn't that be like making your kids eat spinach? I thought you were worried about making every body mad. I would think this would certainly put us in a worse light. I know you said you didn't NECESSARILY agree with it but this is a pretty radical idea and seems even a bit hypocritical?
 

Skinnywater

Commander
Joined
Mar 7, 2002
Messages
2,065
Re: By golly, PW, you were right and we all were wrong, and how could we have be

Re: By golly, PW, you were right and we all were wrong, and how could we have be

Now if you change tactics, for example, send in a few hundred thousand more troops, declare marshal law and make non-military owning of a firearm illegal and subject to being shot on sight for violaters, and get that country under control, now that has some logic behind it. I don't necessarily agree with it, but it has a definable goal at least.
I'm all for reinitiating the Powell Doctrine.
And it's a cryin' shame this administrations confusion has proven PW right.
 

PW2

Commander
Joined
Apr 21, 2004
Messages
2,719
Re: By golly, PW, you were right and we all were wrong, and how could we have be

Re: By golly, PW, you were right and we all were wrong, and how could we have be

Well, hypocritical or not, I'm for winning it. I don't know what that means exactly, except it is pretty clear to me what we are doing is not going to lead to a victory.

Which is of course why I was absolutely against going in from the start.

And why I don't know what the best course is now. As Powell warned "You break it, you own it"

I don't know the character of those that were elected in Iraq, and I truly fear that somehow we have disturbed the balance over there by taking an enemy of Iran (Saddam) and turning them into a strong Iranian ally, making the mid east a far more dangerous place than it was before.

Seymour Hersch (sp?) A long respected investigative reporter from the New Yorker magazine suggests we are planning to go to war with Iran soon. If true, it's going to get ugly, and Israel's experience with Hezbollah better teach us that we better go in prepared. A few bombing runs are going to achieve next to nothing over there.
 

treedancer

Commander
Joined
Apr 10, 2005
Messages
2,216
Re: By golly, PW, you were right and we all were wrong, and how could we have be

Re: By golly, PW, you were right and we all were wrong, and how could we have be

Quote President George W Bush

US Troops Won't Leave Iraq In My Presidency. It's Up To "Future Presidents" To Remove Them...

Anything more need to be said?
 
Top