Building a 383 Stroker

[greg82255]

Re: Building a 383 Stroker

As long as you are getting all new stuff you may as well go for 7/16 studs rather than 3/8 and the rockers to fit. If you have already got um you could add a stud girdle instead.

Hey Joe, I didn't notice this post until just now. The heads already had 3/8" studs installed and my machinist said they were in great shape so we just kept them. I looked into the stud girdle (I had never heard of it before) and some other forums seem to suggest that they're really only needed for motors that operate at high RPMs. How much benefit would the stud girdle provide if I don't go above 5500 RPM?

 

[Sabbath]

Re: Building a 383 Stroker

Have you thought about going an electric fuel pump?

You're running carb so need only about 7psi of fuel pressure, im running a Carter Black pump in my street/strip car which is also running a 4150 series 750DP Holley. The Carter puts out 100gph with a PSI rating of 14-16 so well within what you need.

 

[joewithaboat]

Re: Building a 383 Stroker

Hey Joe, I didn't notice this post until just now. The heads already had 3/8" studs installed and my machinist said they were in great shape so we just kept them. I looked into the stud girdle (I had never heard of it before) and some other forums seem to suggest that they're really only needed for motors that operate at high RPMs. How much benefit would the stud girdle provide if I don't go above 5500 RPM?

Its prob a little overkill, but cheap insurance. Ive been running them on similar small blocks but they do see more rpm, a little NOS and the last couple cams were solid roller so you get a bit more abuse,vibration etc. They were in cars remember, i have not done this in a boat yet...but you have my mouth watering.

 

[greg82255]

Re: Building a 383 Stroker

Have you thought about going an electric fuel pump?

You're running carb so need only about 7psi of fuel pressure, im running a Carter Black pump in my street/strip car which is also running a 4150 series 750DP Holley. The Carter puts out 100gph with a PSI rating of 14-16 so well within what you need.

I actually just bought a Holley Marine mechanical fuel pump. It claims to put out 110 gph and 6.5 to 8 psi. Might be something to think about in the future. I was looking at the Holley 4160 series (750 cfm) carbs. All the marine 4150 series that I see have manual chokes, and I want one with electric.

Its prob a little overkill, but cheap insurance. Ive been running them on similar small blocks but they do see more rpm, a little NOS and the last couple cams were solid roller so you get a bit more abuse,vibration etc. They were in cars remember, i have not done this in a boat yet...but you have my mouth watering.

I'll look into them further. I ended up buying the retro-fit hydraulic roller cam. Just got my order from Summit - it was like christmas opening all of the stuff for the new motor. I'm glad I have you intrigued - it's definitely going to be a fun winter project. All the machine work to my block is done. They are just waiting on the crank to come in so they can balance everything and set the main bearing clearances. I should get all my stuff back from the machine shop next friday - one week from today.

 

[joewithaboat]

Re: Building a 383 Stroker

I wouldn't get too hung up on electric choke. The 4150 series have always performed better WOT in all of my experiences. The 4150 will give you much more tune-ability as far as jetting with metering blocks front and rear. It seems when you get a Holley set up to make the most power its going to be a bit rich at cold start and a choke is not all that important, but i do live in Texas. I bet if you looked at others, who are concentrating on power, they are using a 4150 series.

<Edit> upon looking i see that the 4150 is available in either electric or manual choke and Holley also sells a kit to go from manual to electric if you already had a manual version.

 

[joewithaboat]

Re: Building a 383 Stroker

Also i bet with your power level and rpm usage you are going to be in the middle... where a 650 is maybe a tad small and a 750 is a tad big. I would expect that you will need to spend some time fine tuning either.

 

[greg82255]

Re: Building a 383 Stroker

Also i bet with your power level and rpm usage you are going to be in the middle... where a 650 is maybe a tad small and a 750 is a tad big. I would expect that you will need to spend some time fine tuning either.

I think you are probably right. I am going to go with a 750 cfm, and I have also read that the 4150 performs better than the 4160. I haven't been able to find one with electric choke though. Ill keep looking. Would I need to have a choke cable if I got one with a manual choke? That was the main reason I wanted electric choke.

 

[wca_tim]

Re: Building a 383 Stroker

I'm not running a choke and don't hardly ever miss it... only takes a couple minutes to warm up.

mechanical marine pump is plenty as long as supply side.

My engine set up is not that different than yours and I had good results with an edelbrock 750 once jetted right, ok results with an edelbrock 600 (it was a good bit slower and not enough but ran well at part throttle and cruise), good results with standard holly 750 dp marine carb (4779) and great restults with the current holley 750 dp, proform body cleaned up a little, proform base, slightly opened up pvcrs on primary side, no power valve on secondary side, a bit smaller air bleeds from the proform standard ones, and some careful time playing with jets, timing, etc.. after everything together. If you don;t like the way it runs without a choke, you can slightly fatten up the primary side of the idle circuit to help a little. I felt a decent amount of gain from losing the choke tower - especially think this makes a difference with a low profile flame arrestor on it... Just my experience, yours or others may differ.

 

[joewithaboat]

Re: Building a 383 Stroker

I think you are probably right. I am going to go with a 750 cfm, and I have also read that the 4150 performs better than the 4160. I haven't been able to find one with electric choke though. Ill keep looking. Would I need to have a choke cable if I got one with a manual choke? That was the main reason I wanted electric choke.

4150 750 carb http://holley.com/0-80537.asp

electric choke kit http://holley.com/745-224.asp

Like Tim says don't think you will miss the choke. I always took them off, milled some of the choke horns off. Proform makes great bodies and bases that flow more and have adjustable bleeds. Holley hp series has this as well but i don't see a marine j-tube base. I know lots of people run without jtubes, but if you run a closed engine compartment and don't have a auto fire system one stuck float could spell disaster. I would run jtubes. You will also be better off with your engine run fuel pump for this reason.

 

[wca_tim]

Re: Building a 383 Stroker

J tubes can be ordered for about 15 a piece, or you can take cheap copper or brass tubing and either make your own or a drilled upside down U that won't let fuel slosh out if you go jumping waves and so forth (one piece of tubing that goes from one vent to the other, drill a series of large holes across the bottom in the middle area)... I've seen the guys that run hard core off road trucks around here do this. On more than one occasion I've just made J's from the right sized tubing. It's trivial compared to a lot of what you're already doing...

I love the proform bodies, but have to be a little careful to be sure no casting flaws, etc... not a big deal, but worth taking time to go over and through carefully to be sure all surfaces smooth and all holes clean and unobstructed. the performance increase was definitely noticeable over the stock 4150 set-up. Can't say anything about changes in jetting because air bleeds were significantly different size on the proform body. They're too big for most marine applications as shipped by the way... but are easy to fill with solder and then gradually bore out with jewelrs bits until you get them right. or you can spend 100 bucks buying a set, but that seems silly top me...

 

[joewithaboat]

Re: Building a 383 Stroker

Agreed that installing j tubes is not all that difficult. On drag race cars that pull the wheels way up we often ran a rubber line with holes cut in the bottom from vent to vent to prevent fuel slosh out.
My point was that i see an awful lot of people neglect to address it. I was a passenger, as a teen, on a boat that had a gas in bulge fire. (not j tube related) I can tell you swimming for your life, unexpectedly, from a boat that ended up burning to the water line and sinking is no fun.

 

[greg82255]

Re: Building a 383 Stroker

I haven't really dealt with carbs before other than buying a holley 4160 600 and bolting it on to a 305 I used to have in my old checkmate. Is the 750 holley dp proform body a marine carb? Or is it a racing carb and that's why you need to add the j tubes? Is that the only difference between the marine and street carbs? Could you guys could post a picture of one of these proform bodies and where you drill holes? I think I would get a much better idea of what you mean.

 

[joewithaboat]

Re: Building a 383 Stroker

For years racers spent much time modifying Holley carbs for better performance. Cutting off the choke horns ,blending the tops, putting adjustable air bleeds, different boosters, jet extensions, and on and on...
At some point aftermarket companies started selling better replacement parts for Holley's; bodies, base plates etc. Making them easier/better to modify. Some are billet even.
Proform is one of the aftermarket companies. I don't think they sell a marine j tube body, but as Tim said adding them isn't a big deal.
Holley then started selling there pro series that had adjustable bleeds already on them, a choke-less blended body and some other goodies. They now have a new ULTRA HP that i have never used or even seen except from a distance.
For your set up a stock 4150 should be fine for now. It is a pretty steep learning curve to start adjusting air bleeds.
I think Tim is talking about down sizing the removable air bleeds with solder instead of buying smaller sized ones.

If you want a super carb already custom tuned to your set up call pro systems. The sell the best modified Holley carbs i have ever messed with. I have tuned quite a few on race cars. They really know there stuff. I have one of their 750's that now rated at close to 900cfm. It has been on & off of several motors of mine and friends. Every car has run better/quicker that it has gone on.

You prob don't need it but if you just want to spend some $$$ and have a super smoooth carb
http://www.prosystemsracing.com/index1.html

 

[Sabbath]

Re: Building a 383 Stroker

The 4x4 Avenger Carb from Holley has the tube over the top to prevent fuel slosh.

http://www.offroaders.com/directory/products/holley-truck-avenger.htm

I was considering one on my car, because of fuel slosh issues in the Holley when doing U-Turns, but have learnt to live with it for now. On a boat though, problem could be fairly interesting

 

[greg82255]

Re: Building a 383 Stroker

I think I'll probably stick with a stock holley 4150 for now. After I spent all the $ on that retro-fit roller cam I don't think I have the extra cash to go for a more expensive carb. It may be something to consider in the future.

 

[wca_tim]

Re: Building a 383 Stroker

I was referring to resizing the air bleed inserts by soldering them closed and drilling back out rather than buying a set of predrilled ones or blanks.

There's a fairly steep learning curve for that sort of thing. If you're more interested in boating than learning to tune, you might try an edelbrock model 1410 750 cfm marine carb. Jetting should be really close to dead on right out of the box for your engine and is a good carb.

The carb I run most of the time started life as a holley 4150 (4779) and went through several iterations before being now mostly aftermarket parts... My back-up carb is an edelbrock 1410. It's on the boat right now due to a major fuel system mess that filled everything with crap. Rather than hurry to rebuld the holley, I set it aside for later and just dropped the spare on. fired right up and runs fine. haven't run it straight up against the holley, but the boat makes a little more power with the holley - after a lot of playing to get the airbleeds, jets, etc, etc, etc... dialed in.

Your combo should make 400+ horsepower, great torque and run like a champ with great manners with a new edelbrock on it. they have an electric choke too...

just a thought...

Hope things are coming together well. it'll run great in the cold air bout the time you get it all put together... ;-)

On that note, I was thinking that next week I might finish putting put the ss drive back together, add it and the stern jack together, the holley back on, leave all the extra gear and weight I can out, check to be sure the bottom is good and clean, put some high octane, ethanol free gas in, advance the timing a few degrees, take a few big wheels and see just how fast I can go on a cool fall day... Too bad that job thing gets in the way... anyhow, enough rambling. cheers!

 

[joewithaboat]

Re: Building a 383 Stroker

On that note, I was thinking that next week I might finish putting put the ss drive back together, add it and the stern jack together, the holley back on, leave all the extra gear and weight I can out, check to be sure the bottom is good and clean, put some high octane, ethanol free gas in, advance the timing a few degrees, take a few big wheels and see just how fast I can go on a cool fall day... Too bad that job thing gets in the way... anyhow, enough rambling. cheers!

Hey Tim if you do all that its time for a new Video!!!

 

[greg82255]

Re: Building a 383 Stroker

I was referring to resizing the air bleed inserts by soldering them closed and drilling back out rather than buying a set of predrilled ones or blanks.

There's a fairly steep learning curve for that sort of thing. If you're more interested in boating than learning to tune, you might try an edelbrock model 1410 750 cfm marine carb. Jetting should be really close to dead on right out of the box for your engine and is a good carb.

The carb I run most of the time started life as a holley 4150 (4779) and went through several iterations before being now mostly aftermarket parts... My back-up carb is an edelbrock 1410. It's on the boat right now due to a major fuel system mess that filled everything with crap. Rather than hurry to rebuld the holley, I set it aside for later and just dropped the spare on. fired right up and runs fine. haven't run it straight up against the holley, but the boat makes a little more power with the holley - after a lot of playing to get the airbleeds, jets, etc, etc, etc... dialed in.

Your combo should make 400+ horsepower, great torque and run like a champ with great manners with a new edelbrock on it. they have an electric choke too...

just a thought...

Hope things are coming together well. it'll run great in the cold air bout the time you get it all put together... ;-)

On that note, I was thinking that next week I might finish putting put the ss drive back together, add it and the stern jack together, the holley back on, leave all the extra gear and weight I can out, check to be sure the bottom is good and clean, put some high octane, ethanol free gas in, advance the timing a few degrees, take a few big wheels and see just how fast I can go on a cool fall day... Too bad that job thing gets in the way... anyhow, enough rambling. cheers!

I'll look into the Edelbrock 1410 750 cfm. Just to be clear, are you saying a Holley 4150 is going to take a lot of tuning to get right, where with the Edelbrock I can just bolt it on and go boating? I'd rather not play with the carb too much - I rebuilt a 2bbl Rochester once but it was a pain and I don't know if I want to go through changing out jets and whatnot, especially with a 4bbl that I'm going to spend probably 4-500 on. I don't want to spend all that $ and screw it up.

I'd love to get this thing out and running asap, but I don't think the New England weather is going to cooperate... I have a week off in March and figured I would love to be able to break the motor in during that week and have it completely ready for summer, but last March there was still 20 inches of snow on the ground up here in MA.

I should be getting all of my stuff back next week. It was supposed to be done by tomorrow, but last weeks snow storm caused some problems with UPS and the crank didn't get to the machine shop until today. Today they are going to balance everything and do the oil clearances. It will be done by end of the day today and I'll pick it up probably next Thursday.

Does it matter how long the motor sits before I start it for the first time? If I build it in January but I can't start it until March or April when the water is turned back on at the house, will that be a problem? Or should I wait until I want to run it to start building?

 

[joewithaboat]

Re: Building a 383 Stroker

You can use either carb. If you never intend to tune for more power get the edelbrock. The stock Holley will work fine and you can modify it later for more if you want.

If the engine will sit long maybe use a good assembly lube (usually red and gooey) instead of strait oil. Never use white grease type of assembly lube.
Those assembly manuals i keep refuring you to tell all about these things!
PICS!!

 

[John_S]

Re: Building a 383 Stroker

The great thing about the edelbrock is you can tune the complete primary side of the carb without any teardown. Primary rods, springs, and jets can be accessed from small covers at top of carb. Secondary jets do require the carb top to be removed. There is also an excellent tuning guide that comes with them.

On the marine edelbrocks, the secondary air valve is controlled by vacuum which pulls against a counter weight. There is no built in adjustment for that, unlike Q-jet (wind-up spring), or vacuum spring changes in a Holley. This shouldn't be an issue with your build, but it might be a limitation for all out tuning, down the road.