Re: Breaking News(abuse)
Some of the opinions expressed above are disgraceful. They offend every principle some posters claim to stand for, especially posts by people who were jubilant about the elections in Iraq being a victory for democracy which justified the war on Iraq.<br /><br />So far as I am aware, the prisoners in the Abu Ghraib cases had not been convicted of any crimes. <br /><br />It is assumed by some of the posters that the prisoners were enemy combatants. It is also assumed that they were guilty of terrible crimes against US service people. There is no evidence that they were guilty of any of these things. Even if they were, battle was long past and they were prisoners of war entitled to proper treatment. Not unlike the American prisoners who were mistreated on the Bataan death march, which apparently was a bad thing (I think it was) but it is not a bad thing to mistreat Iraqi prisoners (which I also think is bad).<br /><br />It is hypocritical and wrong to condemn these people merely because they are prisoners and to say that this justifies any mistreatment, with or without cameras present FFS!, while at the same time bleating about things like the Bataan death march. Either prisoners are entitled to decent treatment or the victor can do with them as the victor wishes. The laws of war and of nations favour decent treatment, regardless of how often it is ignored in practice. That does not seem to be the majority opinion here.<br /><br />The acts for which Lindy England and others have been charged were not punishments or actions authorised by any laws of war or any other legal system, process or decision. <br /><br />Whether superiors should also stand trial does not diminish the moral or legal responsibility of the actors like England. That was clearly established at the Nuremberg Trials where the "we were only following orders" defence was emphatically rejected. Every soldier is responsible for his or her own actions, with or without orders. <br /><br />If you are committed to the American ideal of democracy you have to accept the constitutional guarantees which underpin it and which are being exported to Iraq to show them a better way of democratic living.<br /><br />Here are some relevant constitutional guarantees, none of which were accorded the Abu Ghraib prisoners.<br /><br />Amendment IV <br /><br />The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. <br /><br />Amendment VI <br /><br />In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.<br /> <br />Amendment VIII<br /><br />Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted. <br /><br /><br />The choices are:<br /><br />1. I support the Constitution of the United States of America as the ideal statment of a democratic society, and therefore wish to see it and its values exported to and conferred on the people of Iraq.<br /><br />OR<br /><br />2. I support the Constitution of the United States of America as the ideal statment of a democratic society, but in exporting democracy to Iraq I will not allow the people of Iraq the same rights I think are the essence of the democracy I think is ideal.<br /><br />If you go for the second, it follows that you will accept that some Americans also have lesser rights because you disagree with their actions or opinions. In which case you have no commitment to the democratic principles which your Constitution expresses.
<br /><br />Still no mention of any higher ups being charged.<br />I guess these reservists took it on their own to do this although the girl does say they were told to "soften" the prisoners up some.
