Boeing - Replace the pilot with computers.

[JB]

Re: Boeing - Replace the pilot with computers.

Just had a flashback. About 1940. My Grandma is taking me to visit Cousin Nellie in New York. We get on the elevator at ground floor level in her posh apartment hotel. Grandma hesitates; there is no elevator operator.

She gets out and asks the doorman where the elevator operator is. He explains that it is an automatic elevator. He shows her the buttons, etc. Grandma mutters some 19th century grumbles.

We climb 7 flights of stairs. Cousin Nellie took us down in the pilotless elevator when we were ready to go.:facepalm:

 

[bigdee]

Re: Boeing - Replace the pilot with computers.

It takes a lot more than just a cursory look at an accident/incident report to fully understand the chain of events that led up to that incident. Just reading the exec summary and stamping it pilot error really tells you very little... it's almost never that simple and multiple breakdowns have to occur in the "chain"

Again, can the computer fly the airplane? Absolutely. Can it deal with the smallest grain of sand in the machine? Not always. the flying public demands 100% and professionals strive to deliver it. Saying this will work 99.999999% of the time doesn't cut it.

It's interesting to read the different viewpoints. I can tell which come from a mechanic, having supreme confidence in the machine and I can tell who comes from at least a little flying background having confidence in the human. I put my confidence in the system in which I'm a part of, which works extremely well in the US. Take either element out and it changes everything. The machine is such a small piece of the big picture but it doesn't surprise me that the engineers and mechanics think the way they do. I think there are many more decisions made by humans throughout a flight that you just don't think about that computers can't make.

I think Philip_G hit it on the head. Unmanned in a elevator,train,subway is doable because there is always the option for human intervention but when it comes to people's lives you will never be able to justify it even with a .0000001% margin of error. Automated flight is a great idea for safety....but you would need a human aboard that was a trained pilot AND engineer and a tech assistant. If passengers were willing to pay higher fares for safety this idea might fly.

 

[Tim Frank]

Re: Boeing - Replace the pilot with computers.

You posted some fictitious numbers to try and make your point. :facepalm:
I simply suggested that your opinion would be more credible if you weren't trying to support it with nonsensical/made-up statistics.

If you have a problem with that, you need to pick your game up a bit.

This debate is really a hijack of Bubba's thread, which started off as a poll, simply asking whether anyone would fly in an aircraft which had no liveware in the cockpit.
Interesting discussion though.

 

[KDAVID1]

Re: Boeing - Replace the pilot with computers.

I have been in aviation all of my life-my dad a pilot, my step dad a mechanic, and I am on the business side. My opinion is you will always need both a human and the computer. The human to monitor the computer and the computer to do the flying (commercial). One thing for sure is that alot of pilots being trained today start out with way more advanced systems than they probably should--leaving them less able to actually fly when there are malfunctions. Just my two cents.

 

[giericd]

Re: Boeing - Replace the pilot with computers.

2 of my best friends work for net jets, 1 flies a citation 10 (c-750) and the other a G200 and i work at an airport. i hear of and see all kinds of aviation problems daily. we have mechanics here all night long chaseing ghosts out of the computer system/eletrical systems. i have to agree with it must be a pilot controled aircraft if there are passengers on board! a few weeks ago a smaller citation with no warning while crusing did a half barrel roll and was inverted! chartered flight so seat belts of passengers were off, catering on the tables, extra baggage on some front seats..... well in a micro second every one except the pilots were on the roof along with the baggage, dinner, all the blue juice from the lav. the pilot froze and the copilot took over, recovered the aircraft and did an emergency landing. that plane was TRASHED! the ladies got off crying, and the pilot got out and as soon as his feet touched the ground he said "I quit". he rented a car to drive back to NC from florida. if it wasn't for a pilot on that plane it would have been all over the news! here is some thing to think about too, a week ago we were going fishing in my buddies 25' boat with twin 175 merc verados. 30 sec after the engines were started #2 died and would not restart. an hour later at the shop the mechanic said that the batt had low voltage and the verados computer picked up the voltage drop (prob from turning on the bait well, stereo system, and GPS all about the same time) and went in to a "protection mode" and would not let you restart it to prevent doing damage to the motor.........now picture if that was a jet with 250people on it and a computer flying!

 

[tallwill38]

Re: Boeing - Replace the pilot with computers.

I love aviation and I hate aviation accidents regardless of the cause.As to the computer vs. human debate every time I have flown a Flight Simulator it's usually me that crashes about 99% of the time occasionally the computer would crash . The funny thing is that while reading the posts above all I could think is that all of you are right and there really isn't any reason to have the elevated tension level and inflammatory atmosphere.Sure figures vary and sometimes we can get stuck arguing over a number and miss the trees due to the forest.I just wish I could program a automated version of me that would go to work and never make a mistake and get the paycheck bring it home :facepalm: My father always said that there were old pilots and bold pilots but not too many old and bold pilots.Also that the propeller is just a big fan that keeps the pilot cool LOL. I guess it is more of an emotional attachment to aviation for some of us more than for others, who would tell the stories if we did switch to a pilotless military or transport system . I guess we could download all the data and sit around the table and imagine what that would have been like if we where actually there. I don't like watching nightvision enhanced smartbomb explosions for fun or anything lol.Of course the pilotless jet can pull more G's and make millions of calculations every microsecond when I might could do three every ten seconds (maybe LOL) but wheres the emotion in turning on a autonomous computerized flight system?Well maybe some guys would find that exciting and I get it, but a lot of guys are old fashioned stick and rudder seat of the pants emotional about aviation types.Its like the pro gun - anti gun debates everybody forgets the bullets are what cause death.The Ground has been the cause of more aviation accidents than anything.Everybody keeps blaming pilots, weather or mechanical failure but if the ground wasn't there just think how much safer flying would be. really

 

[bigdee]

Re: Boeing - Replace the pilot with computers.

.I just wish I could program a automated version of me that would go to work and never make a mistake and get the paycheck bring it home.

It would not be practical unless you had a technician available 24/7 to watch over you....Things fail,that is a fact......we can automate all we want but the need for service people will never be factored out. Think of unmanned space flights...when they fail,since no-one is aboard to correct the problem they are destroyed from a ground command....imagine doing that to a plane full of people.

 

[salty87]

Re: Boeing - Replace the pilot with computers.

won't work without GPS system. would also have to worry about a hijacker from the ground too.

are pilots really that bad?

 

[southkogs]

Re: Boeing - Replace the pilot with computers.

are pilots really that bad?

Well ... try tellin' one he can't do something (Awww, I'm just kiddin' ... sorta')